Arts & Literature2 mins ago
Deaths
103 Answers
Hey peeps I dont usually get all political but..... hehe always a but. If you look at these statistics
https:/
Isnt this proof there is no pandemic? I understand that with lockdowns etc there will be less traffic accidents etc etc but also there are more deaths from diseases such as cancer etc because of the lack of treatment.
Anyhoo maybe I am wrong but what is all the commotion about when there is no significant increase in deaths?
If you look at the BBC they are saying hospitals are over run yet look at this lady's video the hospital is empty and she ended up getting arrested https:/
Why are we being spoon fed fear and why does a bit of very basic research show this all to be not as we think?
I also know a lady with late stage lung, liver and cervical cancer die , get covid put on the death cert as well as one lady who died of dimetia.
None of it makes sense to me why does everything g contradict what is being pushed by the TV news?
https:/
Isnt this proof there is no pandemic? I understand that with lockdowns etc there will be less traffic accidents etc etc but also there are more deaths from diseases such as cancer etc because of the lack of treatment.
Anyhoo maybe I am wrong but what is all the commotion about when there is no significant increase in deaths?
If you look at the BBC they are saying hospitals are over run yet look at this lady's video the hospital is empty and she ended up getting arrested https:/
Why are we being spoon fed fear and why does a bit of very basic research show this all to be not as we think?
I also know a lady with late stage lung, liver and cervical cancer die , get covid put on the death cert as well as one lady who died of dimetia.
None of it makes sense to me why does everything g contradict what is being pushed by the TV news?
Answers
It is that there are a number of people in the figures who have really died of other causes. Within 28 days of a positive test. That is stated at almost every briefing. Yes it quite stupidly includes deaths due to road accidents, cancer, heart disease and everything else. The time to be sure is when those figures are corrected, after a lot of staff examine the data...
08:11 Mon 04th Jan 2021
But that is of ALL causes
to be sure. But what other causes have coincidentally spiked? Any reason why twice as many people should suddenly died after falling off ladders or in traffic accidents?
FWIW here's a graph, 10 years old, detailing ways of dying
https:/
to be sure. But what other causes have coincidentally spiked? Any reason why twice as many people should suddenly died after falling off ladders or in traffic accidents?
FWIW here's a graph, 10 years old, detailing ways of dying
https:/
> But that is of ALL causes. Is even 15% extra deaths p.a. worth putting millions of people out of work from jobs of which many will not return, ruining millions of small businesses, crashing the economy (national debt is now over 2 trillion) huge hidden at the moment, mental health issues, & putting future generations in comparative poverty paying it all off?
Khandro, you were a man arguing (from his abode in Germany) that the UK should leave the EU, no matter what the economic cost, because it was a matter of principle. Any concerns about putting people out of work, damaging our economy, and getting future generations (who wanted to Remain) to pay for it were outweighed by the principle. And that's fine - the only valid argument for Brexit was the principled one that you took (and New Judge argued for very well).
But now you're arguing that the UK should let have 70,000+ people die, because the economic cost of doing otherwise was too high.
Where are those same principles now?
Incidentally, although the UK national debt is now over 2 trillion, it was 1.75 trillion before Covid.
Khandro, you were a man arguing (from his abode in Germany) that the UK should leave the EU, no matter what the economic cost, because it was a matter of principle. Any concerns about putting people out of work, damaging our economy, and getting future generations (who wanted to Remain) to pay for it were outweighed by the principle. And that's fine - the only valid argument for Brexit was the principled one that you took (and New Judge argued for very well).
But now you're arguing that the UK should let have 70,000+ people die, because the economic cost of doing otherwise was too high.
Where are those same principles now?
Incidentally, although the UK national debt is now over 2 trillion, it was 1.75 trillion before Covid.
The reason for bringing hypothetical figures in should be clear, really. In the first place, other countries have seen excess mortality this year at far greater rates than the UK -- for example, a 53% excess in Mexico (year up to October 11), a 79% excess in Ecuador (year up to October 21st), and even an 89% excess in Peru (up to December 6th) has been reported. Even regarding those as exceptions, you can see large spikes in many countries, such as Belgium, Spain, the US, etc, reporting sizeable excesses in the region of 20-25%.
This leads us to two conclusions: firstly, that a 30% excess in all cause mortality in the year of Covid isn't hypothetical; and secondly, that the UK may have actually come off fairly lightly so far in terms of excess mortality. It's reasonable to suppose that this is, at least partly, because action taken by the Government has kept the excess lower at least than it could have been.
Which brings me back to my question: what, in your view, is an acceptable limit on the number of people dying from Covid before extreme action is warranted to try and prevent it?
This leads us to two conclusions: firstly, that a 30% excess in all cause mortality in the year of Covid isn't hypothetical; and secondly, that the UK may have actually come off fairly lightly so far in terms of excess mortality. It's reasonable to suppose that this is, at least partly, because action taken by the Government has kept the excess lower at least than it could have been.
Which brings me back to my question: what, in your view, is an acceptable limit on the number of people dying from Covid before extreme action is warranted to try and prevent it?
> Your extraordinary linking of covid to Brexit is most bizarre
They both damage the economy - that's the link. In the case of Brexit, you don't care about the economy and put Brexit first. In the case of thousands of people dying, you do care about the economy and you state that 15% excess deaths is acceptable. It appears that you care more about the nation than the people of the nation - now that's bizarre ...
They both damage the economy - that's the link. In the case of Brexit, you don't care about the economy and put Brexit first. In the case of thousands of people dying, you do care about the economy and you state that 15% excess deaths is acceptable. It appears that you care more about the nation than the people of the nation - now that's bizarre ...
https:/
More suffering from rectocranial inversions. Glad the hospital dealt with it.
More suffering from rectocranial inversions. Glad the hospital dealt with it.
What really perplexed me is heart disease and nutrition related illnesses. Why shut down the country, destroy businesses and make people depressed over a tiny amount ? When they could put laws innplace for nutrition and not ruin anyones lives and save 10 times more people. This is whT I cant get my lil head around. The reaction to it makes no sense. All I see for nutrition is a sugar tax and for cancer a few friendly adverts warning you.
I think there seems to be a number of issues in play here
A). Excess deaths based on a normal year
This isn't a normal year as other causes of death especially related to seasonal flu, and subsequent bacterial infections are down
B) Covid deaths have covered that reduction as well as producing an excess of deaths
C) The increase in Cancer deaths and to a lesser extent those due to other conditions will be subject to a lag that may play out over years as a result of late diagnosis of interruptions/delays to treatment. Very few will be showing up now.
A). Excess deaths based on a normal year
This isn't a normal year as other causes of death especially related to seasonal flu, and subsequent bacterial infections are down
B) Covid deaths have covered that reduction as well as producing an excess of deaths
C) The increase in Cancer deaths and to a lesser extent those due to other conditions will be subject to a lag that may play out over years as a result of late diagnosis of interruptions/delays to treatment. Very few will be showing up now.
So what happens to the thousands that may need hospitalisation in a week or two out of the 200k + that have tested positive in the last week? This will spiral even more out of control with the new variant if the whole country isn't locked down. Obviously there will be those who will do as they please anyway and take no notice.
//Meanwhile, life in Wuhan goes on as though nothing had happened.//
yeah nuke wuhan obvious thing
yeah I still agree with Ukan - his point is perfectly argued: there are no new deaths, no one is dying from anything, and 60 000 new cases of flu today is piffle - it is something else - hypochondria or biliousness probably
ergo no lockdown and go out and party ! - it um makes perfect sense ( to anyone on AB )
[ some one near us has started - 4 d and feels too awful to go and get tested. and has a 92 y old grandmother. everyone is wondering if this is The Start. virtually none up to now ]
yeah nuke wuhan obvious thing
yeah I still agree with Ukan - his point is perfectly argued: there are no new deaths, no one is dying from anything, and 60 000 new cases of flu today is piffle - it is something else - hypochondria or biliousness probably
ergo no lockdown and go out and party ! - it um makes perfect sense ( to anyone on AB )
[ some one near us has started - 4 d and feels too awful to go and get tested. and has a 92 y old grandmother. everyone is wondering if this is The Start. virtually none up to now ]
UKA its called CHOICE I can choose to smoke, drink, take drugs and so on or not. While I can take precautions against getting covid I can't choose not to get it......you do seem to be sliding away from your original pandemic, what pandemic argument.....could this be because you relise that you are wrong?
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