I wasn't driving

[kop442000]

My brother lives in Argentina, and he came over to stay with us. While he was here he used my car a couple of times, even though he wasnt insured to do so. On one occasion, he must have got flashed speeding cos I got the ticket after he had gone home.

Is there anything I can do about this? I already have 6 points, so REALLY don't want to take it to 9. Especially as I was really not driving the car. But I what will happen with him not having insurance?

Thank you

[spaced]

you either take the points and fine, or grass on your brother and tell them that a unisured driver used your vehicle. Wether you tell them that he did with or without your permission, is up to you.

The only other way is to blame it on a mate, with their permission, and let them take the points and penalty

[gary baldy]

Seems to me you got your just deserts. We have had posts about uninsured drivers on here before and it is rare everyone agrees on something. You let your brother borrow your car knowing he wasn't insured yet you dont want to accept the consequences of this. I think getting caught on a camera is a lucky escape for all involved (including any hapless driver or pedestrian your brother might have killed)

[JudgeJ]

Well said, gary baldy. How many times do we hear sob stories about people either driving uninsured or allowing others to do so?

Unfortunately, kop442000, if you simply provide your details as the driver at the time of the alleged offence (assuming that YOU are insured to drive) then no insurance offences will be investigated. However, if you do decide to “grass” on your brother, there could be an investigation into the matter and you could be prosecuted. Section 143 of the Road Traffic Act refers:

a person must not cause or permit any other person to use a motor vehicle on a road unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that other person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks….

Personally I hope the truth comes out, that your brother is prosecuted for speeding and no insurance and you are prosecuted under the Act I outlined above. But I’ll not hold my breath.

[kop442000]

(a) - I didn't know my brother was using my car.

(b) - ************************************ If I wanted a moral lecture I would be asking my mum or something.

[kepla]

It seems your brother committed several ofenses, including taking your car without permission ! When you found your car missing did you report it to the police ? One 'legal technicality' you might be interested in is this: When the police send you the form to declare who was driving the car, then you are under a legal obligation to fill the form in but not to sign it. So, you fill it in but leave the signature blank and wait for the court case. Once in court to ask your solicitor to move for dismissal as the form declaring who was driving has not been signed and is therefore not admissable in court as evidence.

[Loosehead]

All you do is fill in the NIP saying your brother was driving, give his address in Argentina and stick to your story. They may ask for some evidence he was in the country so if you can get hime to fax his plane ticket, that'll help. Do not mention the TWOCing or the insurance. Simple! The other answers are technically correct but in reality if you do the above all they'll do is file it in the round filing cabinet.

[kop442000]

thanks guys...

but loosehead.. I understandably don't want to get my brother in any deep trouble... will they not find out about the insurance thing? I would rather take the points than have him get into trouble about the insurance thing...

[gary baldy]

Rather a self righteous idiot than a morally corrupt one!

[kop442000]

please explain how someone borrowing your car when you are not home is morally corrupt?

[gary baldy]

I cant really answer that without sounding like a 'self righteous idiot'.
Sorry!

[kop442000]

ok great! Everyone's a winner.

Go and post about a question that you can actually usefully answer rather that passing judgement on people you don't know to make yourself feel better.

[gary baldy]

Unlike you passing judgement on people you dont know by calling them "self righteous idiots".

The beauty of this site is that you can get a wide range of different answers and opinions from people you dont know. This can sometimes be negative but it is mainly a good thing.
You posting a question that is open to all means that you have therefore given anyone who chooses an opportunity to answer. You asked questions and using my (limited) knowledge of road traffic offences and my experience of being involved with uninsured drivers i gave you my opinion on the situation.
The 'right' thing to do would to let your brother take responsibility for his actions and let him sort it out.

[Loosehead]

Well assuming it's a fixed penalty they will try and process that. They will not be asking for prodcution of documents. As you brother lives in argentina the mechanism does not exist to process it. Does he have a British licence? if so he can take the fine and �60 otherwise there is no administrative process available. The insurance won't come into it unless it's something other than a fixed penalty.

[kop442000]

Thanks loosehead.

It is a fixed penalty notice. He does have a british driving licence.

I am just worried cos sometimes he has a fixed address, and sometimes, he drives all over and lives in this bus thing he has. Will I get in trouble if I can't provide them with an address?

[tigga]

i wouldnt have thought so - you cant give them info you dont have, you can only give it to the best of your knowledge, i think correct term for not doing this is 'failing to provide identity of driver' - doesnt say anything about them not being able to find him, i think they will give up on it personally. just be honest, good luck.

[tigga]

P.S. about the lectures, it normally winds me up to see everyone getting their shilling's worth in but i have to admit, what gary baldy says is a fair comment, if you post a question like this you have to accept the wide range of opinion. it is everybody's site !.

[stanleyman]

A similar thing happened to me when a cousin from NZ borrowed a van for a few weeks and got a ticket. I was asked for the drivers details so just gave them his name and address in NZ. The UK police have no authority in NZ and so neither of us heard another thing.

[kop442000]

thank you very much for your posts guys.

I agree that anyone should be able to post as they wish on here, but I did specifically ask for information, and not opinions on my ethics!

But thanks again for the helpful information. cheers guys.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

quite truthfully i think you are lying about your brother and that in fact it was you driving,i expect some of the others do as well. the police arent stupid,they can check whether your insurance is just for you and not any driver,and sometimes they do check these things out.its a good job he dident kill anyone while he borrowed the car isent it.

[fishbait]

My mates a cop, he tells me to write and i quote " i cannot divuldge this information" Across the ticket requesting this info and send it back. I have tried this on 2 tickets i have recieved and they will send you a further 2 requests before giving up. I am told that in English law you are unable to give evidence against yourself thus the loop hole!

good luck there is no harm in trying it worked for me !