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Workplace bullying
I wasn't sure whether to put this in here or in law, but let's see what sort of response I get anyway.
This is on behalf of my husband. He's been on sick leave for three weeks now, due to stress, partly caused by workplace issues (boss constantly picking on him etc etc) and exacerbated by some family problems centred around his mum. He's under his GP and under occupational health at the moment and is also receiving stress counselling. He's made good progress and was looking at a phased return to work in two or three weeks' time. During his time off, he's been generally chilling out and doing things he enjoys (because that's what he's been advised to do by the medics). One of those things is drumming and all things related and to that end he contributes regularly to a dedicated drum forum.
The other day he made a tongue-in-cheek comment (as they do on that forum) that he wouldn't be going to a planned get-together at a gig here in our home town because his workplace is ticketing the event and his boss would be there, and probably paralytic to boot. He also commented that the drumkit (belonging to the employer) mightn't be in very good tune (yes, you do have to tune them) because as far as he knows he's the only one employed there who knows how to tune the kit.
Contd. in next post.
This is on behalf of my husband. He's been on sick leave for three weeks now, due to stress, partly caused by workplace issues (boss constantly picking on him etc etc) and exacerbated by some family problems centred around his mum. He's under his GP and under occupational health at the moment and is also receiving stress counselling. He's made good progress and was looking at a phased return to work in two or three weeks' time. During his time off, he's been generally chilling out and doing things he enjoys (because that's what he's been advised to do by the medics). One of those things is drumming and all things related and to that end he contributes regularly to a dedicated drum forum.
The other day he made a tongue-in-cheek comment (as they do on that forum) that he wouldn't be going to a planned get-together at a gig here in our home town because his workplace is ticketing the event and his boss would be there, and probably paralytic to boot. He also commented that the drumkit (belonging to the employer) mightn't be in very good tune (yes, you do have to tune them) because as far as he knows he's the only one employed there who knows how to tune the kit.
Contd. in next post.
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Cont.
Today he received phone call from his boss, who's been sniffing around the drum forum (even though he's not the remotest bit interested in drums) and has asked him to retract his comment. He's also told him he shouldn't be taking part in internet forum discussions whilst he's off work. Furthermore, the boss' friend (who used to work at the same place, but who now freelances for them for extortionate amounts of money - in cash) also called my hubby wanting to talk about said comments. Naturally, hubby hung up on the guy. Just to put the cap on all this, one of the techs from the workplace has got himself a login to the forum and has posted one solitary comment to the effect that the forum peeps shouldn't listen to hubby because he doesn't know what he's talking about. We guess the boss has put him up to this. It's backfired because hubby has a lot of support and respect from the forum, many of whose members know him personally.
So there he was, looking to getting back to work, and now this - it's probably put him back several weeks, healthwise. A lot of people have said this is pure workplace bullying, which we would both agree with. It seems as though the boss is just trying to find a way of getting some sort of disciplinary procedure in place. We suspect he's already had someone go through hubby's PC at work looking for anything untoward (which they're unlikely to find, seeing as how there's nothing untoward there) to use against him. The question is, is there any action we can take in terms of grievances etc. either via the trade union or via any kind of tribunal that hubby can take to bring this guy up short and get some sort of recompense for the grief they've given him? As I said, it's not just this incident - there have been other things, but this is just the icing on the cake.
Today he received phone call from his boss, who's been sniffing around the drum forum (even though he's not the remotest bit interested in drums) and has asked him to retract his comment. He's also told him he shouldn't be taking part in internet forum discussions whilst he's off work. Furthermore, the boss' friend (who used to work at the same place, but who now freelances for them for extortionate amounts of money - in cash) also called my hubby wanting to talk about said comments. Naturally, hubby hung up on the guy. Just to put the cap on all this, one of the techs from the workplace has got himself a login to the forum and has posted one solitary comment to the effect that the forum peeps shouldn't listen to hubby because he doesn't know what he's talking about. We guess the boss has put him up to this. It's backfired because hubby has a lot of support and respect from the forum, many of whose members know him personally.
So there he was, looking to getting back to work, and now this - it's probably put him back several weeks, healthwise. A lot of people have said this is pure workplace bullying, which we would both agree with. It seems as though the boss is just trying to find a way of getting some sort of disciplinary procedure in place. We suspect he's already had someone go through hubby's PC at work looking for anything untoward (which they're unlikely to find, seeing as how there's nothing untoward there) to use against him. The question is, is there any action we can take in terms of grievances etc. either via the trade union or via any kind of tribunal that hubby can take to bring this guy up short and get some sort of recompense for the grief they've given him? As I said, it's not just this incident - there have been other things, but this is just the icing on the cake.
So, to cut a long story short, your husband made disparaging comments about his boss online and his boss found out and is, not surprisingly, not best pleased?
Personally, I wouldnt be doing anything more to inflame the situation if I was your husband, I'd keep a low profile while I was off work sick and hope it would blow over.
I dont understand where youre coming from as to writing a grievance letter, unless you mean to do with any bullying that may have happened previously?
All the other stuff about friends being paid in cash, boss looking at his PC at work etc seem to be a bit irrelevant to what youre saying here.
Personally, I wouldnt be doing anything more to inflame the situation if I was your husband, I'd keep a low profile while I was off work sick and hope it would blow over.
I dont understand where youre coming from as to writing a grievance letter, unless you mean to do with any bullying that may have happened previously?
All the other stuff about friends being paid in cash, boss looking at his PC at work etc seem to be a bit irrelevant to what youre saying here.
I'd be wary of any sort of formal procedure. I've had an experience with this and even the union told me it was my word against the boss' and as their post was a hard-to-fill managers post they'd wipe the floor with me.
No one else was prepared to stand with me and I kept being told I needed evidence, evidence, evidence. Which I didn't have. I didn't keep a log of all the things that were said or written at the time and I could have kicked myself for it. You may have evidence and colleagues willing to support you, though.
Be careful.
No one else was prepared to stand with me and I kept being told I needed evidence, evidence, evidence. Which I didn't have. I didn't keep a log of all the things that were said or written at the time and I could have kicked myself for it. You may have evidence and colleagues willing to support you, though.
Be careful.
Twenty, he didn't name his boss and the people on the forum don't know where he works (except for a couple who live locally) - he's careful not to broadcast that. Tell me too - do most people have their bosses trawl through their computers to see what they've been doing? Apart from via IT, that is - which this isn't. It was just another employee. And the guy who gets paid in cash? Audit have been sniffing around lately and not too many people know about these payments, if you get my drift.
This is just the tip of an iceberg that's been going on for months now. It's built up to him having to have this time off and now the boss makes phone calls (at home) telling him how he can and can't run his private life.
It's not just hubby - there's another guy off with the same thing. Again, this guy has been constantly nagged by the boss and has actually just been cleared on a cooked-up disciplinary charge that the boss was never able to prove.
JamSam, because this has been building up for some time, he's been careful to keep records and emails. It's clear that what the boss is after is a reason to carry out a disciplinary so that he can get rid. This is what he tried to do with the other guy but it didn't work. Fortunately he's in touch with the other guy so he does have that support. He's also a union rep, so his own representation would come at a slightly higher level - I think that's the avenue he's following today, with a view towards a formal complaint against the guy.
Helpmetoo - he did look at the train spotters forum, but there was a guy on there called helpmetoo, who made him fall asleep, he was so boring. It's almost as sad as going on a question and answer forum and not actually answering with anything constructive.
This is just the tip of an iceberg that's been going on for months now. It's built up to him having to have this time off and now the boss makes phone calls (at home) telling him how he can and can't run his private life.
It's not just hubby - there's another guy off with the same thing. Again, this guy has been constantly nagged by the boss and has actually just been cleared on a cooked-up disciplinary charge that the boss was never able to prove.
JamSam, because this has been building up for some time, he's been careful to keep records and emails. It's clear that what the boss is after is a reason to carry out a disciplinary so that he can get rid. This is what he tried to do with the other guy but it didn't work. Fortunately he's in touch with the other guy so he does have that support. He's also a union rep, so his own representation would come at a slightly higher level - I think that's the avenue he's following today, with a view towards a formal complaint against the guy.
Helpmetoo - he did look at the train spotters forum, but there was a guy on there called helpmetoo, who made him fall asleep, he was so boring. It's almost as sad as going on a question and answer forum and not actually answering with anything constructive.
The internet is far from private. You must assume that any comments will be read by those concerned. This is why most people used anonymous usernames and so can't be traced.
To be posting derogatory comments about his boss was foolish to say the least and he can hardly blame him for being angry. If it were me I would swallow my pride and apologise to the boss.
I see no bullying here. I too would be angry if someone had posted something similar about me on an internet messaeg board.
To be posting derogatory comments about his boss was foolish to say the least and he can hardly blame him for being angry. If it were me I would swallow my pride and apologise to the boss.
I see no bullying here. I too would be angry if someone had posted something similar about me on an internet messaeg board.
Sorry saxy, but I don't think your husband should've passed any remarks about his boss online. Even if HE hadn't seen it, you can bet that someone else would, who'd be bound to spill the beans, considering the derogatory things that were said.
Also, I don't think it helped that your husband hung up on him when the guy in question wanted to talk to him about the said matter. Why on earth didn't your husband just explain that the remarks were made in jest - and apologise if necessary? By hanging up, he's made himself look even worse. As for the drumming - that's a sound interest, but if he can turn up to a gig, along with all the noise of the music, then surely he's fit to go back to work? I don't want to sound mean, but if your husband gets carpeted, it's pretty much his own fault.
Also, I don't think it helped that your husband hung up on him when the guy in question wanted to talk to him about the said matter. Why on earth didn't your husband just explain that the remarks were made in jest - and apologise if necessary? By hanging up, he's made himself look even worse. As for the drumming - that's a sound interest, but if he can turn up to a gig, along with all the noise of the music, then surely he's fit to go back to work? I don't want to sound mean, but if your husband gets carpeted, it's pretty much his own fault.
Can take the boss' point here, but it was tongue-in-cheek complete with smilies, and there have been times when the boss has readily verbally acknowledged his love of the sauce, so it's not exactly something new. I think the real rub, though, is that he called him at home whilst he's supposed to be off sick, aggravating the very condition he's off sick with, rather than waiting until he gets back. The guy could quite easily have contacted the forum admin/moderators. Instead, he gets another employee to register and make a personal comment back.
-- answer removed --
... and Ice-Maiden, the other guy who phoned is a freelancer hired purely for financial work, who used to work there full-time until he left to open a catering business. He's not a manager, has nothing to do with the line of management at all and this situation has nothing to do with him other than the fact he's the boss' friend (and certainly NOT hubby's).
I see your husbands' situation like Squarebear and Icey did, and I agree with what they said. I also wondered why your husband didn't talk to the person on the phone. He probably could have cleared his name and explained his side. Well said Ice!
Sometimes to get ahead it's best to bite our tongue. In the long haul it would turn out to be most beneficial to us. Another observation - people don't always recognise toungue-in-cheek comments as such. At times people make serious remarks, and when questioned about it, to get of easy they say it was tongue-in-cheek.
If it's not too late maybe your husband shoulld call his boss and apologise; this way when he return to his job there might be less tension between him and his boss.
Sometimes to get ahead it's best to bite our tongue. In the long haul it would turn out to be most beneficial to us. Another observation - people don't always recognise toungue-in-cheek comments as such. At times people make serious remarks, and when questioned about it, to get of easy they say it was tongue-in-cheek.
If it's not too late maybe your husband shoulld call his boss and apologise; this way when he return to his job there might be less tension between him and his boss.
Just telling it as I saw it figure - hi hun - but I have to agree with you that it might not be too late to call this person up and try and talk things over in a sensible fashion.
It's always a difficult one when someone's the boss's friend, but you see, saxy, I also think that Zaczmaster's right in saying that there are separate issues at stake here. The bullying, for want of another word, is not on - but separate from what your husband said on the forum. Tongue in cheek or not, it's far from professional - and somewhat personal - to post disparaging remarks about a colleague. If the boot'd been on the other foot, I doubt your husband would've been very pleased to see/hear something like that. See if hubby 's prepared to phone this guy. he can make an excuse for hanging up, but it's best to try & sort things out. Best of luck.
It's always a difficult one when someone's the boss's friend, but you see, saxy, I also think that Zaczmaster's right in saying that there are separate issues at stake here. The bullying, for want of another word, is not on - but separate from what your husband said on the forum. Tongue in cheek or not, it's far from professional - and somewhat personal - to post disparaging remarks about a colleague. If the boot'd been on the other foot, I doubt your husband would've been very pleased to see/hear something like that. See if hubby 's prepared to phone this guy. he can make an excuse for hanging up, but it's best to try & sort things out. Best of luck.
I've asked the mods to delete this thread. Meantime, could people please stop posting to it now. The situation's actually more complex than I can explain here without launching into specific details - and since the union have taken up the case today (yes, he does have a good case, apparently), we'd rather not do that.
Cheers
Cheers
Saxy_jag, one of the things in life that REALLY upset me, is hearing about bullying. Wether it be at school or in the workplace, it is TOTALLY childish and unacceptable.
If I were your husband I would seriously think about finding a new job. If he goes back things may be rosey for the first few weeks but things will just return to normal, and he will find himself working in an untenable atmosfere and back to square one.
He should resign and use his time to look for a new job and get away from this place. Personally O couldnt return to a place of work where I had been bullied and I have had to take time off. I would find another job.
Cut all ties with this place, return the drums, and be done with it.
I know its hard to leave a job as finances become strained, but I am a firm believer that your health is themost important thing.
good luck!
If I were your husband I would seriously think about finding a new job. If he goes back things may be rosey for the first few weeks but things will just return to normal, and he will find himself working in an untenable atmosfere and back to square one.
He should resign and use his time to look for a new job and get away from this place. Personally O couldnt return to a place of work where I had been bullied and I have had to take time off. I would find another job.
Cut all ties with this place, return the drums, and be done with it.
I know its hard to leave a job as finances become strained, but I am a firm believer that your health is themost important thing.
good luck!
Well, as I've said, the ball's already beginning to roll on this and he does have support. He's been having counselling in any case, before this incident (as I said, there have been past incidents), and was referred there by occupational health (to whom he self-referred). With their help, he's considering a number of strategies, and your suggestion is one of them.
I'm still waiting for the mods to delete this thread, but thanks anyway for your support.
I'm still waiting for the mods to delete this thread, but thanks anyway for your support.
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