Rape is Rape ... Idiots ... I am steaming!

[joggerjayne]

I can hardly read today's papers without screaming.

What is WRONG with these idiot women?

They are attacking Kenneth Clarke for disagreeing with the suggestion that "rape is rape".

So here are 2 scenarios ...

Scenario (1)

Me and the BF roll in a bit p!ssed. He wants a bonk. I'm not really up for it. As we fall asleep, he has his way with me, kisses me, and falls asleep.

I wake up wondering why there's a sticky patch on my side of the bed.

He give me a coffee, and some toast.

Scenario (2)

As I walk home, a bag is thrown over my head. Four strangers drag me, screaming, into an alley. To stop me screaming, they punch me in the face, until I am unconscious. They take turns raping me, in the dirt, behind the wheelie bins.

I wake up in hospital, connected to a drip feed. My nose is broken. I have lost a lot of blood.

The doctor tells me that the men who raped me were arrested buying drugs. One of them is known to be HIV positive, and I will need to be tested.

So ...

There is really NO difference between these rapes?

As a victim, I should feel no worse about scenario (2)?

God almighty.

Feminists have a track record of making the rest of us look stupid, but this time they've really gone too far.

These women are morons !!!!!!!

[joggerjayne]

I'm glad I got that off my chest.

[Sqad]

JJ...I have to agree and that was what Kenneth Clarke was trying to say, but his choice of words were confused and unfortunate.

[joggerjayne]

Yes, sqad ...

But instead of trying to be sensible, and understand what KC was saying ...

... they tried their best to misunderstand him.

I know they have to try and score political points, but they make women look stupid.

[lady-janine]

jj scenario 3 a very young child (male or female) is raped. this is also more serious than scenario 1. imo

[Hopkirk]

He does have an unfortunate habit of smiling and laughing inappropriately as he makes a point.

[joggerjayne]

Thank you, Lady J ... a further illustration of the point.

[Old_Geezer]

It's a very touchy subject. One admires folk who has the courage to touch it with a ten foot bargepole, even.

[venator]

jj - couldn't agree more, and glad you're feeling better now!

It's one more example of the demise of common sense.

[redman41]

Totally agree with your sentiments JJ .
Although far rarer, Men get raped as well.
Anything that is not given by consent is rape, but your 1st scenario is a bit of a grey area.

[joggerjayne]

Thanks, venator.

I was only feeling rough because a quick drink at the pub last night turned into a long night guzzling bottles of white wine and gulping oysters.

[McMouse]

Spot on jj. I have just listened to the entire KC piece and don't know what the fuss is about. I guess the problem is that we have a very emotive word "RAPE" which is used to define a wide range of events.

[joggerjayne]

redman ...

Yes, scenario (1) is a grey area.

Scenario (2), and Lady J's scenario are NOT grey areas.

Punishment for (1) ... he might get no sex for a few days (unless I got a bit desperate).

Punishment for (2) ... banged up for 15 years.

[Ratty2E]

I was listening to radio 5 at the time and heard part of the interview and I have to admit
I did think what is he going on about surely rape is rape. Then I thought about it and realised that in my head the word rape instantly brings images of something like scenario 2. Rape with violence or involving children is of course more serious than a situation as illustrated in scenario 1. I haven't read a paper today and I think I'll keep it that way.

[McMouse]

Scenario 4. !7 year old boy has consenting penetrative sex with 15 year old girlfriend .....RAPE.
They go on to get married and live happily for 50 years....was still RAPE. The ranting idiots are still saying rape is rape.

[daffy654]

It isn't always as black and white as JJ's scenarios.
I was in a violent relationship many years ago and my boyfriend of the time forced me to have sex with him (using violence) on more than one occasion, even after I had clearly said no and then begged him to stop during. The relationship ended with me stabbing him (not serious) and then fleeing to another part of the country so he couldn't find me. Was that not rape because I was in a relationship with him?

[The-HouseHusband]

It is an unfortunate case of a politician known to put the wrong words in a sentence (covers most MP's) and also laugh and smile without realising the consequences again having his words taken in a totally different way and thrown back at him by people that dont realise the harm that they are causing.

It certainly isn't a slur on all women JJ, just those that think they are the only ones that have any knowledge on the subject when in fact they have probably never had any experience of the subject matter.

Unfortunately the judicial system is also run in the majority (possible incoming abuse) by bigoted individuals who live such a sheltered life they can never fully understand the effect that the judgement and sentences they dish out have far more harm on the victim's than any one else.

[lady-janine]

mcm that is certainly no. 4.
no. 5 incest where a father continually rapes his own child or children. surely that is a serious rape.

why not ask the man exactly what he defines as serious rape before trying to lynch him.

[Ellipsis]

It's just political point scoring. If it's one of "your own side" saying it, then it's trivial. If it's one of "the other side", then it's terrible.

Any Labour supporter who thinks Ken Clarke's words were terrible should picture how they'd feel if Ed Miliband had said them. Any Tory supporter who thinks there was nothing wrong his words at all should do likewise.

From my own POV, I think his words were unfortunate but another inevitable consequence of our delightful English language. That's to say, the word "serious" can be used in different ways. One of the ways is "extremely bad", as in a "serious accident". Does that mean that there can be trivial accidents? Yes.

Rape is a serious issue, but Clarke wasn't using "serious" in this context. He was using it in the context of the extreme end of the spectrum, like "serious accident". The fact that there are a range of sentences for rape demonstrates that there is such a spectrum, and it's OK if politically clumsy to describe the far end of it as serious.

There was an interview on R4 Today this morning in which a Clarke protagonist (Laurie Penny of the New Statesman) caught herself saying that Clarke showed "serious mismanagement". She seemed to realise that she was using the word "serious" in the exact same context as Clarke - but I think she got away with it ...

[kayakamina]

Possibly we should adopt the American 'Statutory Rape' conviction i.e Consenting
partners but the girl is 15 and the boy 17.
To me this 'rape' is not as serious as other 'rapes'. Clarke was very clumsy with his explanation but should not be vilified for it.

[joggerjayne]

Could anyone from the New Statesman ever be a Clarke protagonist ?

But I agree with the point, Ellipsis.