Listener 4842 For Me And You By...
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Should he be allowed to go to school with this hairstyle?
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http://www.dailymail....lishment-mohican.html
/// I would feel ridiculous without it, it makes me an individual. All my mates like it and some want it too.' ///
Yes a ridiculous individual it would seem.
/// I would feel ridiculous without it, it makes me an individual. All my mates like it and some want it too.' ///
Yes a ridiculous individual it would seem.
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The reason it's so important kromo is that your school is a part of who you are. It is part of who you are.
Children should not impose their own identities on a school.
If anyone believes that your school does not become part of your identity, ask them if they think there is any significance whatsoever in the fact that David Cameron went to a particular school.
Children should not impose their own identities on a school.
If anyone believes that your school does not become part of your identity, ask them if they think there is any significance whatsoever in the fact that David Cameron went to a particular school.
An educational establishment are threatening to put a grade A school child in to a remedial class because of a hair cut that a member of THEIR staff sanctioned (in error). And all we're concerned about are rules and how we might judge him if we saw him on the street?!
If the school really wanted to show some pride then maybe it needs to remind the teachers of the bloody dress code properly so they can appropriately answer questions!
He is an 11 year old, intelligent boy who is being threatened with the punishment of supressing his intelligence because he has a hair cut. I'm still not getting why anyone can even begin to aruge this is right.
If the school really wanted to show some pride then maybe it needs to remind the teachers of the bloody dress code properly so they can appropriately answer questions!
He is an 11 year old, intelligent boy who is being threatened with the punishment of supressing his intelligence because he has a hair cut. I'm still not getting why anyone can even begin to aruge this is right.
They have been as well Joe.
I have absolutely no problem with a school enforing a dress/hair code (although I think the hair code is way over the top) but I do have a problem with someone being given incorrect information and being made to pay for it as if it is their fault. I also have a problem with the punishment not fitting the crime.
I have absolutely no problem with a school enforing a dress/hair code (although I think the hair code is way over the top) but I do have a problem with someone being given incorrect information and being made to pay for it as if it is their fault. I also have a problem with the punishment not fitting the crime.
Maybe the teacher who they asked was wrong CD. However, it doesn't mean the school, just because one particular teacher was dippy, should bend their rules. The way I see it, they should acknowledge (the school) that the teacher was wrong, but reiterate the correct rules are thus....
Which they've now done.
Again I reiterate, im willing to bet that the mountains of paperwork they got when their child was enrolled at that school clearly laid out what was acceptable as far as hair was concerned.
I don't particular like the ever so attractive polyester pants I have to wear to work, but I accept that its part of the uniform, and the way I have to dress if I want to work there. Neither are we allowed multiple piercings, way out there hair, or tattoos which are excessive. Again, I might not like those rules, but I have to accept them. Why are children in a school any different?
Which they've now done.
Again I reiterate, im willing to bet that the mountains of paperwork they got when their child was enrolled at that school clearly laid out what was acceptable as far as hair was concerned.
I don't particular like the ever so attractive polyester pants I have to wear to work, but I accept that its part of the uniform, and the way I have to dress if I want to work there. Neither are we allowed multiple piercings, way out there hair, or tattoos which are excessive. Again, I might not like those rules, but I have to accept them. Why are children in a school any different?
"The reason it's so important kromo is that your school is a part of who you are. It is part of who you are. "
Which is once again quite a dramatic change in your argument.
Nevertheless...
It's also a part of who you are which you have absolutely no say in, and will have no real memory of being outside of it until after you have left. I won't deny that your upbringing/education influences you as a person - that would be foolish. I just question why this necessarily leads to pride.
For example, what if you were miserable at school? What if all you can remember your school doing is hounding you every time your shirt wasn't tucked in/hair was wrong? Or forcing you to do subjects which you didn't understand the relevance of and had no interest in without telling you why?* Or telling you that you'll 'never light up the world academically' (and that one's from my own experience) when you don't even understand why you need to? And then after they've had you for 8 hours in the day, you don't even have the right to some spare time - they expect you to just keep going. Why on earth should you be proud of this institution? In normal, average, schools - is there really any extant sense of school pride? Really? I'm unconvinced.
If you take care of the pennies, the pounds will look after themselves - the same goes if you're looking to establish school pride. If kids feel happy and like they're getting something out of school, then I reckon they'll feel proud of it. Otherwise it's a horrendously outdated (and, frankly, failed) notion which prizes uniformity over individual happiness and development.
*(Please note - I'm not saying we shouldn't teach kids anything. We just need to make it clear why we're doing it.)
Which is once again quite a dramatic change in your argument.
Nevertheless...
It's also a part of who you are which you have absolutely no say in, and will have no real memory of being outside of it until after you have left. I won't deny that your upbringing/education influences you as a person - that would be foolish. I just question why this necessarily leads to pride.
For example, what if you were miserable at school? What if all you can remember your school doing is hounding you every time your shirt wasn't tucked in/hair was wrong? Or forcing you to do subjects which you didn't understand the relevance of and had no interest in without telling you why?* Or telling you that you'll 'never light up the world academically' (and that one's from my own experience) when you don't even understand why you need to? And then after they've had you for 8 hours in the day, you don't even have the right to some spare time - they expect you to just keep going. Why on earth should you be proud of this institution? In normal, average, schools - is there really any extant sense of school pride? Really? I'm unconvinced.
If you take care of the pennies, the pounds will look after themselves - the same goes if you're looking to establish school pride. If kids feel happy and like they're getting something out of school, then I reckon they'll feel proud of it. Otherwise it's a horrendously outdated (and, frankly, failed) notion which prizes uniformity over individual happiness and development.
*(Please note - I'm not saying we shouldn't teach kids anything. We just need to make it clear why we're doing it.)
"...it's a horrendously outdated (and, frankly, failed) notion which prizes uniformity over individual happiness and development."
Uniformity unfortunately often has to prevail over individual happiness and development, Kromo. Children need to be made aware at as early a stage as possible that their needs and requirements are not always (in fact rarely are) paramount. The best place for them to learn this (as with most things) is at school.
There is no earthly reason for this boy to sport this haircut and if his headmaster has decreed that it is not allowed, then that should be that. His parents should support the headmaster’s decision, instilling in the boy that very often in life “rules is rules”.
As surely as his haircut will have little or no effect on his education, similarly if he had a “conventional” haircut (as decreed by the headmaster) then that would have no influence over his education either. Children need to understand that they will be required to comply with rules and regulations from time to time. School is not the place to “challenge authority”. School is the place to learn and head teachers must have the authority to frame rules under which that learning will most effectively prosper.
Uniformity unfortunately often has to prevail over individual happiness and development, Kromo. Children need to be made aware at as early a stage as possible that their needs and requirements are not always (in fact rarely are) paramount. The best place for them to learn this (as with most things) is at school.
There is no earthly reason for this boy to sport this haircut and if his headmaster has decreed that it is not allowed, then that should be that. His parents should support the headmaster’s decision, instilling in the boy that very often in life “rules is rules”.
As surely as his haircut will have little or no effect on his education, similarly if he had a “conventional” haircut (as decreed by the headmaster) then that would have no influence over his education either. Children need to understand that they will be required to comply with rules and regulations from time to time. School is not the place to “challenge authority”. School is the place to learn and head teachers must have the authority to frame rules under which that learning will most effectively prosper.
"Children need to be made aware at as early a stage as possible that their needs and requirements are not always (in fact rarely are) paramount."
But surely they are paramount? The whole point of an education system is to give children the skills they need to develop, to pursue a career, and (not least) to pursue happiness. That's loony-liberal charity, that's one of the foundations of our society. But if that's not putting the consideration of children first, then I don't know what is.
Further, I don't see how the school-pride doctrine is essential to those aims at all considering that as we demonstrated earlier it is proud of the fact that it proudly excludes people and ostracizes the different. In fact I think it's actively detrimental to them.
"
As surely as his haircut will have little or no effect on his education, similarly if he had a “conventional” haircut (as decreed by the headmaster) then that would have no influence over his education either"
I doubt it effects his brain chemistry or anything like that, but the cut clearly means a lot to him. And these things are only 'different' or controversial if you treat them as such - go into any sixth form with no strict uniform policy and spend a week there, and it becomes pretty pedestrian.
"School is not the place to “challenge authority”"
Then where is? I'm guessing you probably don't think the home is appropriate either, and considering that we're supposed to learn in school, then it strikes me as an ideal place to ask questions and investigate boundaries. Challenging authority is a basic entitlement - if somebody won't or can't explain to you why you ought to trust their authority, then you probably shouldn't. That's not anarchism or radicalism - that's just making sure that authority is the best that it can be.
Now, I admit that this doesn't have a huge presence in the workplace (but it's not entirely absent either, depending on rank/exact occupation), but it strikes me as a valuable and worthwhile thing for wider society at large.
But surely they are paramount? The whole point of an education system is to give children the skills they need to develop, to pursue a career, and (not least) to pursue happiness. That's loony-liberal charity, that's one of the foundations of our society. But if that's not putting the consideration of children first, then I don't know what is.
Further, I don't see how the school-pride doctrine is essential to those aims at all considering that as we demonstrated earlier it is proud of the fact that it proudly excludes people and ostracizes the different. In fact I think it's actively detrimental to them.
"
As surely as his haircut will have little or no effect on his education, similarly if he had a “conventional” haircut (as decreed by the headmaster) then that would have no influence over his education either"
I doubt it effects his brain chemistry or anything like that, but the cut clearly means a lot to him. And these things are only 'different' or controversial if you treat them as such - go into any sixth form with no strict uniform policy and spend a week there, and it becomes pretty pedestrian.
"School is not the place to “challenge authority”"
Then where is? I'm guessing you probably don't think the home is appropriate either, and considering that we're supposed to learn in school, then it strikes me as an ideal place to ask questions and investigate boundaries. Challenging authority is a basic entitlement - if somebody won't or can't explain to you why you ought to trust their authority, then you probably shouldn't. That's not anarchism or radicalism - that's just making sure that authority is the best that it can be.
Now, I admit that this doesn't have a huge presence in the workplace (but it's not entirely absent either, depending on rank/exact occupation), but it strikes me as a valuable and worthwhile thing for wider society at large.
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