Little Mix Wins the X Factor

[rov1100]

The voting was nothing to do with race was it as I thought Marcus was the favourite and should have won?

[pa___ul3]

if it helps, most people on my facebook,all from Merseyside, were backing little mix. Basically suggests that you're wrong.

[EvianBaby]

From memory at least two black/mixed race people have won the X Factor in the past.

How you can bring race into it I really have no idea. Just because you 'thought' Marcus was a favourite that doesn't mean he was.

I noticed an article in the DM yesterday that tried to claim Mischa lost out because she was 'too black'. Give me a break.

[naomi24]

Ridiculous questions like that encourage thoughts of racism where there were previously none - and it happens all too often. Common sense should tell you that Marcus received a high proportion of the votes, otherwise he wouldn't have been in the final.

[sp1814]

Hang on everyone - the question actually DOES have validity. There have been stories in the papers over the past few days that Mischa B failed to get to the finals because she was deemed 'too urban and too black' for the general public to warm to her.

Alexandra Burke won, but the commentators made the point that at the time, she was being mentored by Cheryl Cole who was the nation's sweetheart (for about six months). So a vote for Alex was effectively a vote for 'our Cher'.

I would've loved it if Marcus had won, because it would show how far we've come int ten years - Will Young had to hide the fact he was gay a decade ago, then two years ago, Danyl had to pretend to be bisexual rather than gay (which he is) and now Marcus can talk openly about his boyfriend in interviews without 'scaring the horses'.

However Little Mix are lovely lasses and I'm really pleased they won. Thes definitely a market for them.

[naomi24]

SP, And that ^^ has the same effect. Shame you can't recognise it.

[pa___ul3]

I really don't think it does have validity SP, as Naomi's said, he got to the final, he beat another gay scouser, so if were about the bracketting, the mixed race gay scouser beat the white gay scouser, suggesting his race had nothing to do with the voting. Did Will Young HAVE to hide his homosexuality or did he choose to? Can you think of any gay artist who has become less successful as a result of coming out?
I'm sure there are some individuals who would have gone against Marcus because he is gay / mixed race / both but I think his overall popularity suggests that that vast majority paid no consideration to these facts and judged him as a musical artist.

[B00]

I'm gobsmacked someone (rov for one) has weird enough mind to even think it and also that it's a newsworthy post, it's just utter rollocks.

[flip_flop]

I think you're way wide of the mark sp.

Trying to shoehorn racism in to a situation where, patently, there is no racism is, well, odd.

Mischa B, despite having the best voice in the competition, was voted off because she didn't come across as 'likeable' and, if the reports are to be believed, because she was a bully and had started to believe she had already won the competition. This is not a colour issue - it is a personality issue.

Wheras Marcus and the girld group, whilst not having the talent of Mischa B, made it to the final becuase they were likeable.

[sp1814]

flip_flop

The news story was already out there. rov1100 is NOT trying to shoehorn racism in to this - he was referring to the claim that race was a factor, and was saying that it obviously wasn't because Marcus came second.

In answer to the question as to sexuality and popularity - when Queen released 'I Want To Break Free', whilst not openly stating 'I'm gay' enough Americans understood the inference an Queen's popularity and sales in the State collapsed.

[sp1814]

Once again - please don't assume that I am shoehorning race into this. Search for "Mischa B too black" in Google.

And I should reiterate - I'm not saying that Mischa B WAS too black to win...just that a couple of writers have claimed that.

By the way naomi24 - I don't understand what you meant in your post at all.

[Zhukov]

I think it was the sight of Freddie in drag that bemused and upset the Yanks

[sp1814]

One other thing - there is no such thing as a young openly gay artist. There's no benchmark because you simply cannot succeed. Certain markets if you're gay.

The truth is - you have to be going a few years and have built up a solid fan base (or be a member of a boyband) to come out.

Do you think Ricky Martin would've achieved the level of success he enjoyed if he'd come out whilst in Menudo?

I think it begs the question - if it really didn't matter, where are all the gay leading men in Hollywood (apart from the three major stars that everyone knows about, but are still closeted).

With Marcus, I think the game was different - he always came across more 'West End musical' than a credible pop star. I think he's inspirational, if a little cheesy.

[pa___ul3]

then does it not say a lot that you have to go that far back, and to a country with a large population of particularly conservative folk, to find an example of sexuality having an effect on an artists success?
Was what was said about Mischa B really a suggestion of racism? 'Too Urban' obviously means just that, not poppy enough to reach the masses, the 'too black' bit doesn't make a lot of sense, if it's again a suggestion towards too urban, a genre associated mostly with young, black artists (self proclaimed as per the MOBO awards etc.). If it is a suggestion towards racism then it's confusing? Do racists have a scale of what is too black and where it becomes OK!?
I think this is an example of where you can find an 'ism' in anything if you look hard enough, and that's a dangerous thing. It's abundantly clear that the fact that Marcus, a young, mixed race, gay lad from a single parent family done so well indicates that your average Saturday night TV viewing family do not take race or sexuality etc into consideration. That is a very positive sign.

[flip_flop]

sp - if rov was referring to the suggestion that race was a factor when in fact it wasn't because Marcus came second, then I (and many others) must've completely misunderstood his original question and his subsequent post.

If I have, then fair enough - although I don't think I have.

Perhaps rov could clarify for us.

[sp1814]

Aaaaaaarrrrrgghhhhhh!

I will reiterate.

I was defending rov1100's post because earlier someone claims that he was shoehorning racism into a subject where it had no place.

I was just trying to point out that his question was basically saying "There...the final shows that race isn't an issue with the X Factor".

I was agreeing with that statement. I am not saying that Mischa was 'too black' to win.

What scuppered her was the accusation of bullying.

I'm now going to retire with a cold flannel over my face and an episode of 'American Dad'c

[pa___ul3]

SP - Scissor Sisters were very very popular. Could it not be that, when it comes to young gay astists breaking through that it's simply their management suggesting they hide it due to outdated views?
Maybe it's just because of marketing because good looking young artists are going to attract the teenage girl market, which is huge, but that is nothing to do with homophobia more perceived accessibility in the same way they're discouraged to say they're in a relationship.

[naomi24]

SP, I meant that by continually dragging up racism - and gay issues - you actually create problems where none previously existed - but sadly you can't see it.

[sp1814]

Scissor Sisters have a neglible teenage following. Like Pet Shop Boys they have a huge gay following. Neither band were ever marketed in the same way that the Backstreet Boys, Nsync, Westlife, Boyzone, One Direction or JLS were.

If it transpired that all of One Direction were gay - their career would be over. If however, in five years, one member came out as gay, it would make no difference (as has already happened with a member of Nsync, Boyzone and Westlife).

[sp1814]

Naomi24

Oh Lordy...let me say this one more time.

I am agreeing with rov1100 when I say that race wasn't a factor. I was supporting his position in light of recent stories that Mischa was 'too black' to win.

I then went on to say that it pleases me that Marcus can talk about his boyfriend when ten years ago Will Young had to keep schtum

[sp1814]

So naomi24 - can you see where I'm coming from?

I actually posted two positive items. I've just re-read my posts and cannot see how you've come to the conclusion that by celebrating Marcus I'm somehow 'creating problems'.

What problems would they be? You've completely confused me. I don't understand what you're getting at.