Should doctors be allowed to strike?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.independen...pensions-7441053.html

I know they are private individuals and as such have a right to protest against the changes in their pensions, in anyway they deem necessary.

But on humanitarian grounds shouldn't a law be introduced to make it illegal for them to withdraw their services?

[Brenden]

I believe slaney, the the first paragraph of the hippocratic oath is "make the care of you patient your first concern", well they would not be able to do that if they went out on strike.

[boxtops]

GPs are independent contractors within the NHS - they are not employed by the NHS in the same way that hospital medical staff are. They are paid a global sum for all their surgery expenses and their core services are commissioned (currently by the primary care trusts, after 2013 by the National Commissioning Board). As Slaney says, the NHS pension is already a good scheme - everyone in the NHS Pension Scheme has been or is being consulted about the radical changes to the scheme. It's still a good scheme - just because some NHS personnel have retired in their 50s until now, and unfortunately may now have to work longer to get similar benefits, doesn't mean they should strike. It's the same for all of us in the Scheme. IMO.

[slaney]

Indeed brenden - you quote the first rule of the GMC's medical practice which has strong Hippocratic overtones, and is why, as I have pointed out striking in the strict sense is not being contemplated by the BMA.

[Sqad]

//In 2007 after tough negotiations with the last government, it was agreed that doctors should work longer, pay more towards their pensions, and receive less in the way of pensions. / ///


Slaney ....nor quite the whole story.......these "tough negotiations" resulted in MORE pay for less hours, including on- call, a deal that surprised the whole of the profession.

[humbersloop]

The OP is about the principle though, not the particular circumstances. And, I think inadvertently by saying illegal rather than unlawful, suggests it should be a criminal act. So why should doctors be any different from any other wage earner?

I thought, Brenden, the first principle is Do No Harm

[boxtops]

It's a dichotomy though - if by always putting your patients first (which is the admirable principle of the profession) your own income/that of your practice suffers by the Government changing the rules.

[slaney]

I will have to recheck Sqad, and look back, but I seem to remember that the pay rise to GPs , in addition to permitting opting out of on-call (a great mistake in my view) was in 2004.
And obviously not all hospital consultants have the opportunity, or the inclination to indulge in Private Practice.
I could go on in boring detail how and why the pay rise for hospital doctors happened - basically the government failed to believe or accept that so many hours overtime were being worked, and when it was eventually proven that this was so, found themselves obliged to pay out.

And as regards the GMC's first rule quoted above, many doctors have used it in support of their opposition to the NHS Bill.

And, yes boxtops - that's it in a nutshell!

And my answer to the OP - yes, doctors should be allowed to strike, but ethically and morally they shouldn't.

[Kromovaracun]

"All workers should be allowed to withdraw their labour"

This is a nice idea, but it's surely subject to some rather pragmatic checks? There's a good reason, for instance, that police can't strike - and why nurses won't. Which obviously isn't quite the same kind of case one would make for doctors, but if we accept the principle that the right you describe is changeable according to circumstances, surely it's a perfectly worthwhile question as to whether it applies to doctors?

[sp1814]

Hmmm -- I feel conflicted on this. On one hand, I'd say that they should have the power of self determination, because your labour is the one thing you have as a bargaining tool...

...however, you could argue that like the police (and UNlike firemen), no-one can 'step in' to provide a service if doctors struck (err...striked...stroke...?)

So on balance, because we're talking about people's lives being put at risk I'd say...

...umm...dunno...completely in two minds.

[Sqad]

sp1814..........-;)

[Gromit]

We should not allow Doctors to strike, because apparently they are a Terrorist threat...

// Since it was you who brought doctors into the argument, seems like some of them can't be trusted either.

I refer of course to the two involved in the 2007 Glasgow Airport bombing attempt.

Dr Bilal Abdulla and Dr Mohammed Asha, I believe. //

[rov1100]

A & E departments would be pretty full, wouldn't they?

[anotheoldgit]

First let me say a very big thank you, to naomi24, em10, craft1948 and Brenden, for objecting to the totally unnecessary abusive remarks that some have found the need to make against me, just for asking this perfectly valid question.

Although these four fellow ABers, noticed these unnecessary abusive and sarcastic jibes, the ED was noticeable absent, so as to step in and chastise these regular offenders, and request them to toe the line.

How much longer is this behaviour going to continue?

Below are the snide remarks that I am referring to, just in this one post.

humbersloop

Bingo!!

humbersloop

ooh - and he's changed papers too. the 'independent' indeed - snigger.

DTcrosswordfan

Herr HautGruppenCommandantFuehrer Griffin in charge?

redhelen

Wow a new newspaper - well done AOG

humbersloop

I'd like to see proof of his Britishness before I could comment on his suitablity dt

Icg76

as for aog to suggest anything be done on humanitarian grounds - that's what people are sniggering at - and please read the rest of his posts over the last couple of days to see what the wider issues are. he likes winding people up....and turning them on each other. not a nice individual....who has even less nicer views and opinions.

Gromit

We should not allow Doctors to strike, because apparently they are a Terrorist threat...

// Since it was you who brought doctors into the argument, seems like some of them can't be trusted either.

I refer of course to the two involved in the 2007 Glasgow Airport bombing attempt.

Dr Bilal Abdulla and Dr Mohammed Asha, I believe. //

This was an unnecessary sarcastic remark that referred to an answer I gave in a past completely different thread.

[sp1814]

All doctors should be allowed to go on strike, apart from mine, who should be at my beck and call 24/7.

There - perfect compromise.

[anotheoldgit]

Since they have been mentioned, and noticing the cuts they have had to endure.

Should the Armed Forces be allowed to strike, also?