Muslim juror who refused to take veil off is ordered to stand down

[naomi24]

http://www.dailymail....cial-expressions.html

I’ve just been watching a discussion about this on The Wright Stuff. Apparently this woman was wearing western clothing, but had her face covered. Was the judge right or wrong to dismiss her?

[sandyRoe]

But if foreign women are expected to dress to a European standard where will it all end? They might have to demonstrate that they're fluent in English next.

[237SJ]

<if I went to a Muslim country and went out in a mini-skirt and tank topI`d be arrested and probably stoned>
LOL - I`ll bear that in mind next time I`m on the beach in Malaysia in my bikini!

[B00]

Well lets hope their grasp of English is sufficient to understand what's happening in a court Sandy.

And I don't think they were asking her to dress to European standards were their? They were asking her to remove a facial concealment, which is a cultural thing, not a religious thing at the end of the day. They weren't telling her to wear a tracksuit with some knock off Uggs from the market!

[Gladeian]

The judge was right.

[FredPuli43]

I did once see a Christian achieve this result.When handed the bible to take the oath, she loudly announced "Judge not, that ye be not judged!", causing the judge to enquire whether she was objecting to trying anybody. She asserted that she was, and was discharged from serving.

[naomi24]

According to The Wright Stuff she was dressed in western clothing - but she had her face covered.

[LoftyLottie]

Exactly 237SJ! I wasn't stoned either in shorts and a vest top.

However, I do believe that anything covering the face is not acceptable in a public place regardless of race or creed. It conceals identity.

[Canary42]

So anybody not easily recognisable must be banned from jury duty. Very interesting, both my identical twin brother and myself have done turns at it - and had we substituted nobody would have known.

So can I now be excused further duty ?

[Sqad]

Oh! dear....I am confused.

AOG and many others, through threads have been, in my opinion. quite rightly questioning the dangers and the impact on society of Islamisation of the Western World. AOG and many of his supporters, were poured scorn upon, many in a vicious manner.

We have now had a taste of Islamisation of the legal system and most of today's posts seem to indicate that it is not acceptable.

We cannot have it both ways, accepting Islam into our society and then "kick it in the teeth" when we feel exploited.

It is now much to late to do anything about the multicultural effect, so in essence we had better accept it.

Should the judge have ordered her to stand down....NO...of course he shouldn't.

Would I as judge, asked her to stand down....YES....of course i would.

[tamborine]

Malaysian traditional dress does not include face cover.

UK Courts are heavily monitored by CCTV and am surprised this woman was allowed in with her ID hidden by the niqab.

As ever, another rebel without a cause.

[janbee]

It's certainly a good way to get out of doing jury service. The judge was right. Hoodies and Balaclavas would be banned too so why shouldn't the hijab? All masks should be banned.

[joko]

but surely she was not a 'foreign woman' sandy... she is 'british'...

and yes, they should be fluent in english if they are expected to do jury duty... how can they possibly have an informed opinion if they cant comprehend muich of what is being said?

[Baldric]

janbee, a hijab does not cover the face, it's a niqab that does that.

[joko]

sqad... i dont think anyone has really 'accepted islam' into our society at all ... it is the proposed measures that some trot to deal with it that people object to - the over the top, knee jerk reactions to it...

most are however happy to accept it as long as it sits side by side with the laws and ways of the land... and when it doesnt, as it often seems not to, they object

[Sqad]

joko...;-)....I am sure that you are correct.........in other words, they don't mind a sip but not take the whole bottle.

I am not sure that it works that way.

[Canary42]

It is amusing that judges who dress up in a manner making them virtually unrecognisable outside the courtroom can make such bizarre rulings.

[shoota]

Reading the article it would appear that the judge considered that a view of facial expressions was desirable in this case.
The woman was invited to stand down and chose to do so. (Read quoted judges comments)
She was not barred from sitting on other cases where a view of facial expressions was not considered desirable or necessary.
Without knowing the reason that the judge considered facial expression to be relevant it is impossible to condemn the decision and, as it would appear that judges have the right to make the request, this incident is just sensationalism.

[cathfromsaron]

right, but she should also be fined, like people who don't turn up and do it! probably knows all the ducks and dives!

[237SJ]

Exactly shoota. The guidelines state that someone can wear the veil but the judge has the right to ask someone to remove it on a case by case basis. In this case he did, the lady was dismissed and that was that. I don`t even know why this made the news. But then again, this was in the Daily Mail...

[Zeuhl]

I think the confusion is that many of us are accepting that muslim people become British and live as British-Muslims. Many do, and a collegue of mine and her husband are precisely that. They consider themselves good muslims but also value the benefits of a modern british identity and display none these (largely arabic not muslim per se) characteristics other than adherence to religious holidays, some dietary restrictions and no alcohol.

A quite separate issue is when cultural practices (again, more arabic than muslim per se) and completely alien to our society such as; concealing the face, female genital mutilation or sentences of death for people who exercise free expression are presented to us and our compliance expected.

We must (as the majority) must demand compliance with our standards on these fundamental issues not the other way around.