Muslim juror who refused to take veil off is ordered to stand down

[naomi24]

http://www.dailymail....cial-expressions.html

I’ve just been watching a discussion about this on The Wright Stuff. Apparently this woman was wearing western clothing, but had her face covered. Was the judge right or wrong to dismiss her?

[Gromit]

* A mate of mine was excused Jury Service due to his religious beliefs, he was a Jahovah's Witness. *

[owdhamer]

100 per cent right

[Baldric]

I didn't know JWs had mates!

[jno]

Zeuhl, what has "communication" to do with a court case? The jury decides the facts, the judge applies the law; for what purpose does the judge have to see the jurors' expressions?

I'm well aware that uncovered faces are the norm in Britain (though it's not universal - for motorcyclists, for instance, it's the opposite) but when did it become a legal requirement? And why exactly? In what way would a niqab have made this woman a bad juror?

[Zeuhl]

<<what has "communication" to do with a court case?>>

Well that's a silly thing to ask as the whole point of a court is the communication of evidence from witnesses, engagement with the jury by counsel and the jury's interpretation of it all.

What next in High Court jno? Mute Barristers?

Everyone involved in the case had the right to be able to gauge the juror's reactions to the proceedings.

If you were on trial,you would probably be concerned and ask your defence team to bring it to the judge's attention, if a juror scowled at you throughout proceedings or indeed grinned at you!

Referring to my earlier post, perhaps you would not objecy if all the members of the jury deciding your fate were wearing masks or hoods.

[sp1814]

Haven't read all the posts on this thread - but has anyone considered that this may not have been a Muslim woman at all?

I ask, because I've never seen a Muslim woman wearing a veil, but in Western clothes.

Is it not possible that this wasn't Aisha Ahmed from Birmingham, but Alison Archer from Chipping Norton?

[sandyRoe]

There used to be kangaroo courts here in Belfast where judge and jury all wore balaclavas.
Happily, that's a thing of the past now.

[sp1814]

DTcrosswordfan

When it comes to race relations, I would take the word of an Australian with a pinch of salt (seen some pretty horrific documentaries on what they did to Aborigine children right up until the 1960s - heartbreaking).

[joko]

sp - thats what i was getting at when i suggested it was just a ploy to get out of doing it

it was probably just an old bedsheet...

[bazwillrun]

If you were in the dock, would you want her on the jury ?

[sp1814]

joko

Yeah...this story is beginning to stink like yesterday's tuna sandwich.

I can now see her legging it out of the court, flinging the 'veil' into the nearest bin and then larging it up down Gala bingo with her mates.

[rov1100]

She should have been charged with Contempt of Court. How the hell did she manage to get through her school lessons.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// * A mate of mine was excused Jury Service due to his religious beliefs, he was a Jahovah's Witness. * ///

/// This woman has effective done the same. ///

Not exactly, I don't suppose your mate turned up to court and then suddenly announced he was a Jehovah Witness.

No, he would have most likely had to apply beforehand for exemption from Jury Service.

To all those that posted that they could see nothing wrong in this woman having her face covered I say this, "perhaps there is no reason why any of the jury need to be on open display, perhaps they could all stay in the jury room, to hear the evidence and then ring in their verdict by telephone"?

[shoota]

Just because she was stood down from this trial doesn't necessarily mean that she was excused jury service. She may have re-joined the pool for selection on another trial.

[joko]

just curious, but why does it always have to be thick black cloth? why do they never wear netty or sheer material - that you can see through? or even 'string vest type stuff?

... does it actually have to render them totally hidden or is it more the 'act' of wearing a 'cloth' on their heads that is important to them?

[giveup]

What's wrong with "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

[B00]

I thought the point of the veil was that others couldn't see your face Joko, that kinda defeats the object if they're wearing some kind of gauzy material doesn't it?

[vulcan]

I certainly would not want this lot on my jury.
http://www.thenationa...201010701039884AR.jpg

[B00]

I know I shouldn't, but I find that whole black ensemble really intimidating!

[237SJ]

The black garb doesn`t bother me TBH. I deal with ladies in black garb at work. They`re fine with me. I always make eye contact and they respond. I don`t think male colleagues should press the case with the eye contact though. The reason they hide their faces is so that men can`t see them (as opposed to anyone seeing them as previously mentioned). Some of the older Arab women wear a sort of gold metal frame over the exposed part of their faces. I do find that they look slightly sinister however.