Spectator - Christmas Crossword -...
Crosswords0 min ago
Chelsea fans shout "Murderers".
82 Answers
http://www.dailymail....gedy-anniversary.html
/// Producers avoided showing pictures of abusive fans. Instead ITV filled half the screen with sombre images from Anfield stadium, ///
I wonder if these repulsive shouts of 'Murderers' would have been treated with the same obvious indifference, had they been racial connected shouts?
These abusive fans should have been shown, and action taken so as to ban them from attending further matches, especially the Cup Final.
/// Producers avoided showing pictures of abusive fans. Instead ITV filled half the screen with sombre images from Anfield stadium, ///
I wonder if these repulsive shouts of 'Murderers' would have been treated with the same obvious indifference, had they been racial connected shouts?
These abusive fans should have been shown, and action taken so as to ban them from attending further matches, especially the Cup Final.
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Re: racist abuse - hopefully anyone shouting racist abuse would have be ejected from the stadium in question and arrested. The FA (quite rightly) comes down hard on racism, but it's much more difficult to police against jerks.
Racists are so much more easily to spot because everyone (or rather, NEARLY everyone) hates them.
However, how would you identify jerks? There are supporters who make up chants based on the <ahem> sexual predilections of players and their wives, there are fans who make up chants based on the financial woes of some teams.
However, racist/homophobic chants are in a different league (pun unintended). The moment that Indian students can walk our streets without being shot in the head and when gay men can walk through the West End without being kicked to death by homophobic <insert swear word> is the moment that racism and homophobia is defeated. Until then, we should recognise that these are specific crimes.
Racists are so much more easily to spot because everyone (or rather, NEARLY everyone) hates them.
However, how would you identify jerks? There are supporters who make up chants based on the <ahem> sexual predilections of players and their wives, there are fans who make up chants based on the financial woes of some teams.
However, racist/homophobic chants are in a different league (pun unintended). The moment that Indian students can walk our streets without being shot in the head and when gay men can walk through the West End without being kicked to death by homophobic <insert swear word> is the moment that racism and homophobia is defeated. Until then, we should recognise that these are specific crimes.
Agreed.
- The people breaking the silence should have been shown.
- Football fans are tribal, so, like racists, they dislike people not in their tribe.
- There is no evidence they would have been shown if they were racist chants.
- The minute applause is a better idea.
- It was not the 25th anniversary, it was the 23rd.
- Other than people in Liverpool, this is history. It means nothing to them.
- Other football clubs do not expect their tragedies remembered for ever.
- Why are we having a minutes silence for someone we have never heard of who plays in a lower league in another country?
There was a good comment piece in the Telegraph. It argued that:
// Although the vicarious grief over Diana was unusually intense, it was a classic demonstration of post-religious spirituality. The same goes for the outpouring of sympathy for Fabrice Muamba, a footballer few people had heard of before he collapsed.
Modern Westerners, including Christians, no longer believe in the supernatural in the taken-for-granted fashion of our ancestors. Confronted by major life events, we find solace in our own compassion. Visit a modern church, and you’re likely to find a smug congregation celebrating itself: a very secular impulse. //
http://blogs.telegrap...celebration-of-grief/
- The people breaking the silence should have been shown.
- Football fans are tribal, so, like racists, they dislike people not in their tribe.
- There is no evidence they would have been shown if they were racist chants.
- The minute applause is a better idea.
- It was not the 25th anniversary, it was the 23rd.
- Other than people in Liverpool, this is history. It means nothing to them.
- Other football clubs do not expect their tragedies remembered for ever.
- Why are we having a minutes silence for someone we have never heard of who plays in a lower league in another country?
There was a good comment piece in the Telegraph. It argued that:
// Although the vicarious grief over Diana was unusually intense, it was a classic demonstration of post-religious spirituality. The same goes for the outpouring of sympathy for Fabrice Muamba, a footballer few people had heard of before he collapsed.
Modern Westerners, including Christians, no longer believe in the supernatural in the taken-for-granted fashion of our ancestors. Confronted by major life events, we find solace in our own compassion. Visit a modern church, and you’re likely to find a smug congregation celebrating itself: a very secular impulse. //
http://blogs.telegrap...celebration-of-grief/
Its 23 years - and this is why liverpool didnt want to play on the day and just have a minutes silence before the match - they wanted to remember in their own environment with likeminded people
it was the biggest football, and possibly sporting disaster, ever and they wanted to show respect
chelscum behaved shockingly - whatever your allegiances they should not transcend human decency - the rivalry should start and end with the game - when something this happens they should unite as humans even for just a minute
even manchester clubs - who famously have a major rivalry with liverpool - are united in this issue - they generally show extreme respect - in the same way that everton does. rival clubs but 'adopted brothers' as some call it.
shamful disgrace
i feel sorry for the other chesea suppoters who showed respect and are throughly ashamned of their fellow fans - as they will inevitably get lumped in with them
the faces - close up - of the guilty should be shown all over the news to shame them... i suspect the fear of reprisals will prevent that though...
liverpool feels very strongly about hillsborough and i have no doubt that if pictures were shown gangs would travel to chelsea to take revenge.
it was the biggest football, and possibly sporting disaster, ever and they wanted to show respect
chelscum behaved shockingly - whatever your allegiances they should not transcend human decency - the rivalry should start and end with the game - when something this happens they should unite as humans even for just a minute
even manchester clubs - who famously have a major rivalry with liverpool - are united in this issue - they generally show extreme respect - in the same way that everton does. rival clubs but 'adopted brothers' as some call it.
shamful disgrace
i feel sorry for the other chesea suppoters who showed respect and are throughly ashamned of their fellow fans - as they will inevitably get lumped in with them
the faces - close up - of the guilty should be shown all over the news to shame them... i suspect the fear of reprisals will prevent that though...
liverpool feels very strongly about hillsborough and i have no doubt that if pictures were shown gangs would travel to chelsea to take revenge.
gromit, i agree that i am not totally sure why unrelated clubs were having a silence - but i am proud they were - it shows that football clubs are united in remembrance - and i see nothing wrong with a simple one minute marker to recognise it.
i assume they feel that, whatever club you support, when tragedy happens fans can come together as human being with hearts...thats a good thing...
regardless of why etc - the fact is they DID have a minites silence and the fans, whether they agreed or not, should have just respected that
whether you know the dead or not is irrelevant. i would NEVER disrup and disrespect something like that - no matter what.
i assume they feel that, whatever club you support, when tragedy happens fans can come together as human being with hearts...thats a good thing...
regardless of why etc - the fact is they DID have a minites silence and the fans, whether they agreed or not, should have just respected that
whether you know the dead or not is irrelevant. i would NEVER disrup and disrespect something like that - no matter what.
I was at the game, at the Chelsea end. When the announcement began, and before the announcer got to the bit about a minute's silence, the whole of the Chelsea end broke into applause for the deceased player. That's what the fans always do in memory of any deceased player.It drowned out the announcement.
"Obvious indifference" aog? That's not so. As soon as two groups started shouting at the words 'minute's silence', there was a great chorus of shushing directed at them. A man behind me, who didn't shout but was heard complaining that 'it had nothing to do with us', he was subject to fierce complaints from fans around him, and the man next to me gave him a lecture about how we were all football fans and should treat any such tragedy as our tragedy. He said it better than I could.
If the shouters had tried that at Stamford Bridge, they would have been reported by other fans just as surely as if they'd shouted racist abuse or, and more pertinently in the case of Tottenham, anti-semitic terms. That would have been the end of any membership or season ticket that the offender had. I noted that Chelsea gently explained in the Stamford Bridge progamme for a Tottenham game that the fact that away supporters sometimes described themselves or their own team by an offensive (semitic) word does not mean that Chelsea fans may do the same.
It is to be hoped that someone in the Chelsea end had the wit to note the seat number of any offender, as would happen at home games. It might not occur to them that the offender is very likely to be a season ticket holder or member and could be traced.
There is, unfortunately, a practice for a few football fans, in general, to shout 'murderers' at Liverpool. This is less than it was, but denigrated with consequences at Chelsea, as I hope it is elsewhere. The mass of Chelsea fans content themselves with singing 'In my Liverpool slum' to the tune of 'In my Liverpool home'!
"Obvious indifference" aog? That's not so. As soon as two groups started shouting at the words 'minute's silence', there was a great chorus of shushing directed at them. A man behind me, who didn't shout but was heard complaining that 'it had nothing to do with us', he was subject to fierce complaints from fans around him, and the man next to me gave him a lecture about how we were all football fans and should treat any such tragedy as our tragedy. He said it better than I could.
If the shouters had tried that at Stamford Bridge, they would have been reported by other fans just as surely as if they'd shouted racist abuse or, and more pertinently in the case of Tottenham, anti-semitic terms. That would have been the end of any membership or season ticket that the offender had. I noted that Chelsea gently explained in the Stamford Bridge progamme for a Tottenham game that the fact that away supporters sometimes described themselves or their own team by an offensive (semitic) word does not mean that Chelsea fans may do the same.
It is to be hoped that someone in the Chelsea end had the wit to note the seat number of any offender, as would happen at home games. It might not occur to them that the offender is very likely to be a season ticket holder or member and could be traced.
There is, unfortunately, a practice for a few football fans, in general, to shout 'murderers' at Liverpool. This is less than it was, but denigrated with consequences at Chelsea, as I hope it is elsewhere. The mass of Chelsea fans content themselves with singing 'In my Liverpool slum' to the tune of 'In my Liverpool home'!
Gromit, you and I agree on this and I am a Pool supporter. This was an event for Liverpudlians and perhaps those from Sheffield and Nottingham Forest, not Chelsea or Spurs.
Though I do prefer the oval ball game or the red leather spheroid one as sports.
however, Gromit, please answer your Spitfire comment.
Though I do prefer the oval ball game or the red leather spheroid one as sports.
however, Gromit, please answer your Spitfire comment.
agreed Fred - it was a football tragedy so goes beyond club loyalties - or at least it does for most football fans
i am not a sailor, but a would bow my head in rememberance of the titanic.
i was not alive during the war and i am british, but i would bow my head in respect for the dead germans... and indeed form any country
not quite the same i know but it should not matter what label you give yourself - particularly regarding a game! - as to whether you show respect to the dead.
i am not a sailor, but a would bow my head in rememberance of the titanic.
i was not alive during the war and i am british, but i would bow my head in respect for the dead germans... and indeed form any country
not quite the same i know but it should not matter what label you give yourself - particularly regarding a game! - as to whether you show respect to the dead.
http://www.clickliver...sborough-deaths-.html
According to this it seems that the Liverpool fans were to blame.
According to this it seems that the Liverpool fans were to blame.
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