Quizzes & Puzzles9 mins ago
Hillsborough: "Key Findings"
http://
So there we have it, the exhaustive 18 month study of over 400,000 documents has basically damned the Police and almost no one else. Their 'key findings' more or less lay the blame fairly and squarely at the door of the South Yorkshire Police.
Having been able to carry out their investigations many years after the tragedy, in the relative calm, they have concluded that the Police were not only palpablyculpable on the day, but then conspired afterwards to deliberately deflect blame onto the Liverpool fans.
I still cannot help but surmise that this report is and has been weighed against the Police from day one. I say that because until yesterday I was unaware that those compiling it had apparently been in the company of the families of those who died throughout their study period?
Would it not have been fair to all concerned had they either have taken an equal amount of time to consult with all involved parties instead of the one pressure group? Had they done so, could their deliberations have led to a different conclusion?
Were the Police and the other agencies disadvantaged as a result?
So there we have it, the exhaustive 18 month study of over 400,000 documents has basically damned the Police and almost no one else. Their 'key findings' more or less lay the blame fairly and squarely at the door of the South Yorkshire Police.
Having been able to carry out their investigations many years after the tragedy, in the relative calm, they have concluded that the Police were not only palpablyculpable on the day, but then conspired afterwards to deliberately deflect blame onto the Liverpool fans.
I still cannot help but surmise that this report is and has been weighed against the Police from day one. I say that because until yesterday I was unaware that those compiling it had apparently been in the company of the families of those who died throughout their study period?
Would it not have been fair to all concerned had they either have taken an equal amount of time to consult with all involved parties instead of the one pressure group? Had they done so, could their deliberations have led to a different conclusion?
Were the Police and the other agencies disadvantaged as a result?
Answers
Most of the answers so far have been irrelevant
The short report is 400 pages and is worth a read
No one was interviewed by them
It purely a paper exercise
I recollect a court case over alteration of statements in 2000
(
So no one...
The short report is 400 pages and is worth a read
No one was interviewed by them
It purely a paper exercise
I recollect a court case over alteration of statements in 2000
(
So no one...
15:21 Thu 13th Sep 2012
At the end of the day campaigners got what they wanted to hear
i.e. Liverpool supporters should shoulder zero blame for the tragedy
Check out the post from Steve5 at 22:05 here
http://
i.e. Liverpool supporters should shoulder zero blame for the tragedy
Check out the post from Steve5 at 22:05 here
http://
-- answer removed --
Well lets see what the South Yorkshire Police have to say - after all they're the ones being accused:
Chief Constable David Crompton, South Yorkshire Police: "On 15 April 1989, 96 of the Liverpool fans went to Hillsborough to watch the FA Cup semi-final and died as a result of the disaster. On that day South Yorkshire Police failed the victims and families. The police lost control. In the immediate aftermath senior officers sought to change the record of events. Disgraceful lies were told which blamed the Liverpool fans for the disaster. Statements were altered which sought to minimise police blame. These actions have caused untold pain and distress for over 23 years. I am profoundly sorry for the way the force failed on 15 April 1989 and I am doubly sorry for the injustice that followed and I apologise to the families of the 96 and Liverpool fans...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19569749
So kerosene you seem to be defending a group who have already accepted culpability
I can't imagine why you'd still be defending people who already pleaded guilty unless ity's simply a matter of personal pride and not being big enough to admit to being wrong
Chief Constable David Crompton, South Yorkshire Police: "On 15 April 1989, 96 of the Liverpool fans went to Hillsborough to watch the FA Cup semi-final and died as a result of the disaster. On that day South Yorkshire Police failed the victims and families. The police lost control. In the immediate aftermath senior officers sought to change the record of events. Disgraceful lies were told which blamed the Liverpool fans for the disaster. Statements were altered which sought to minimise police blame. These actions have caused untold pain and distress for over 23 years. I am profoundly sorry for the way the force failed on 15 April 1989 and I am doubly sorry for the injustice that followed and I apologise to the families of the 96 and Liverpool fans...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19569749
So kerosene you seem to be defending a group who have already accepted culpability
I can't imagine why you'd still be defending people who already pleaded guilty unless ity's simply a matter of personal pride and not being big enough to admit to being wrong
joe luke,
I totally agree with your assertion, and I can empathise with what Steve5 said in that other link.
I said yesterday that I have experience going back to the early 1960s of games in Scotland, Hampden Park in particular, where the attendances were 134,000. I can remember how terrified, as a young person, especially coming out of those games when every man and his dog was pushing and jostling to get out and get home as quickly as possible. Especially if your team lost. Even getting in, particularly if you were running late, which is something that many footie fans are guilty of because many of them are bevvying in the nearby pubs until just before kick off.
It's a miracle that a similar tragedy to that of Hillsborough happened then - and who may have been blamed?
The Glasgow Police, I can assure you, are no shrinking violets when it comes to dealing with football fans, but, crucially, when the Ibrox disaster happened in 1971, costing the lives of 66 fans, all crushed or smothered, one a very close boyhood friend of mine, the Police were exonerated of any blame, nor was there any subsequent hue and cry to try to find scapegoats to blame for it. It was simply a human tragedy caused by weight of numbers, nothing more.
I totally agree with your assertion, and I can empathise with what Steve5 said in that other link.
I said yesterday that I have experience going back to the early 1960s of games in Scotland, Hampden Park in particular, where the attendances were 134,000. I can remember how terrified, as a young person, especially coming out of those games when every man and his dog was pushing and jostling to get out and get home as quickly as possible. Especially if your team lost. Even getting in, particularly if you were running late, which is something that many footie fans are guilty of because many of them are bevvying in the nearby pubs until just before kick off.
It's a miracle that a similar tragedy to that of Hillsborough happened then - and who may have been blamed?
The Glasgow Police, I can assure you, are no shrinking violets when it comes to dealing with football fans, but, crucially, when the Ibrox disaster happened in 1971, costing the lives of 66 fans, all crushed or smothered, one a very close boyhood friend of mine, the Police were exonerated of any blame, nor was there any subsequent hue and cry to try to find scapegoats to blame for it. It was simply a human tragedy caused by weight of numbers, nothing more.
Sipowicz,
Perhaps as an Evertonian you have scant regard for the death of those 96 Liverpool fans, judged by your puerile comments so far, but I happen to believe that their loss of life was a total tragedy, and serious comments to that effect on here are not to be scoffed at - so butt out unless you have anything worthwhile to say on the subject.
Perhaps as an Evertonian you have scant regard for the death of those 96 Liverpool fans, judged by your puerile comments so far, but I happen to believe that their loss of life was a total tragedy, and serious comments to that effect on here are not to be scoffed at - so butt out unless you have anything worthwhile to say on the subject.
-- answer removed --
Most of the answers so far have been irrelevant
The short report is 400 pages and is worth a read
No one was interviewed by them
It purely a paper exercise
I have to say that most of the info was out there anyway
I recollect a court case over alteration of statements in 2000
(Judges said they were so wise, they could see thru all that)
So no one had a right of reply because there were no interviews
I wondered why the Marchioness disaster and Zeebrugge sinking didnt generate hundreds of dissatisfied parents and relatives, still complaining after twenty years
and it is worth reading the report to find out why
PP
The short report is 400 pages and is worth a read
No one was interviewed by them
It purely a paper exercise
I have to say that most of the info was out there anyway
I recollect a court case over alteration of statements in 2000
(Judges said they were so wise, they could see thru all that)
So no one had a right of reply because there were no interviews
I wondered why the Marchioness disaster and Zeebrugge sinking didnt generate hundreds of dissatisfied parents and relatives, still complaining after twenty years
and it is worth reading the report to find out why
PP
Kerosene the evidence is available on-line,I read it and wept.Feel free to make up your own mind.Full disclosure has resulted in the "pressure group" ie.people that have been vilified for over twenty years being totally vindicated,not by a sympathetic panel but by inconvertible evidence,as to the truth of what they believed.Indeed the extent of the coverup took them by surprise.
Is anyone well versed enough to realise what the primary duty of a Police Officer is at football matches? To prevent Breaches of the Peace - that's it.
Responsibility for fans' safety is not top of the Police remit - that is down to the stewards who of course are quite at liberty to request Police assistance at any time. There is always a match commander, even in 1989, a senior Police Officer, who usually is situated somewhere in a kind of control room during the game overlooking the interior of the stadium and in communication with Police units on the ground.Were any stewards held accountable?
Responsibility for Police numbers for any given game is that of the home club - however, as this was an FA Cup tie, it probably was still Sheffield Wednesday but in conjunction with the FA. Has anyone to date interrogated those responsible?
Ambulance/medical personnel on duty are also at the behest of the home team.
Fans have a duty to themselves to arrive as early, and as sober, as possible, especially when it's a high profile, all ticket match liable to be a sell out. Storming the gates a la 'storming the Bastille' is unwise - and dangerous.
In 1989, football stadia in England reflected the mass hooliganism which used to take place at games, hence 'cattle type pens' and high fences.
It's totally inconceivable that one agency alone - from every individual present that day - can be solely held accountable for that tragedy and its aftermath, no matter how unpalatable that may seem to many.
Responsibility for fans' safety is not top of the Police remit - that is down to the stewards who of course are quite at liberty to request Police assistance at any time. There is always a match commander, even in 1989, a senior Police Officer, who usually is situated somewhere in a kind of control room during the game overlooking the interior of the stadium and in communication with Police units on the ground.Were any stewards held accountable?
Responsibility for Police numbers for any given game is that of the home club - however, as this was an FA Cup tie, it probably was still Sheffield Wednesday but in conjunction with the FA. Has anyone to date interrogated those responsible?
Ambulance/medical personnel on duty are also at the behest of the home team.
Fans have a duty to themselves to arrive as early, and as sober, as possible, especially when it's a high profile, all ticket match liable to be a sell out. Storming the gates a la 'storming the Bastille' is unwise - and dangerous.
In 1989, football stadia in England reflected the mass hooliganism which used to take place at games, hence 'cattle type pens' and high fences.
It's totally inconceivable that one agency alone - from every individual present that day - can be solely held accountable for that tragedy and its aftermath, no matter how unpalatable that may seem to many.
-- answer removed --
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