Idiots

[BayBoy1]

So what is wrong with Idiot Duncan Smith? he wants to stop the Winter fuel allowance for ex pat pensioners, who have paid into the scheme all their working life, and now we have that prat Cable who wants to tax pensioners on their Bus passes .What planet are they from???

[emmie]

if that is the case then surely they are taxed on both, and don't receive any benefits?

[ladybirder]

Not the State Pension. Housing BENEFIT for one.
Do you class the State Pension as a Benefit corby?

[hc4361]

The state pension is a benefit if you've never paid your stamp, surely?

[emmie]

but if you have paid tax and NI contributions, is it still a benefit?

[boxtops]

why does this say NA for 2013-14 for the over 65 allowance, please? I hope it means Not Available, rather than Not Applicable? (you are right with the £10500 hc, I'm out of date)

[ladybirder]

But I have paid full stamps and SERPS hc. Why should it be called a benefit? To me it is an entitlement. My private pension isn't labelled as a Benefit.

[hc4361]

SSP isn't a benefit, isn't called a benefit. It shows on bank statements as SSP - statutory state pension.

[ladybirder]

Oh but it is hc. Read my post at 15.20.
The bank may not class it as such but the DWP does.

[boxtops]

ignore my post at 16.13, I've just seen the answer on the line below on that table.

[THECORBYLOON]

Widows and now widowers receive payments and pensions based upon NI Contributions, as a whole they are called Bereavement Benefits and formerly, Widow's Benefits. The fact that some entitlements are based upon contributions does not stop them being benefits. That's why folk speak about non-means and means-tested benefits. State Pensions is a non-means tested benefit because it is not affected by income or savings but it is a benefit still.

[ladybirder]

Do you work for the DWP corby:-)

[THECORBYLOON]

Yes

[ladybirder]

: - ))

[BayBoy1]

DangerUXD, A state pension and also winter fuel allowance are not benefits
because pensioners have paid into the system all their working lives.
A 16 year old single mother who has never paid a penny into the system can claim, family allowance, housing benefits, community charges, free medical services etc etc. NOW that's what I call benefits? and incidentally people who don't have any children have to contribute to all this.
Also a 16 year old can claim 71 pounds a week JSA and never paid a penny into the system
You seem quite happy with the system, why is this. After all we are only talking about 200 pounds per year, not the thousands that people are cheating the system with year after year. I think we are all talking about the principal not the pittance of 200 per year.

[craft1948]

The tax allowance for over 65s is £10500.
That's an income of £200 per week before paying tax.

Well guess what hc, as I'm not 65 until August I don't get that tax allowance thanks to Mr Osborne's last budget killing that 'huge' perk off if you weren't 65 by April this year.

[THECORBYLOON]

A pensioner who has been widowed or is divorced but never worked or never paid contributions may be receiving full rate benefit based on the late or ex-spouses contributions.

[hc4361]

And if they don't, Corbyloon, it is topped up by pension credit.

[BayBoy1]

Why are there no comments from foreign residents on this subject ,about what is classed as a benefit ??? do they know more than we do...

[THECORBYLOON]

BayBoy1 a sixteen-year old would get only £56.25 pw on JSA.

hc, I was making a point to BayBoy1 that a State Pension need not be based upon the recipient's NI record so his argument they have paid NI all their life and therefore entitled to a pension and the Winter Fuel Payment is not correct.

[New Judge]

what do you think the State Pension is if not a benefit?

As I said, Corby, it is a benefit for those who have paid no contributions. For those who have it is no more a benefit than a private pension is. The confusion arises because people who have spent their lives drawing working age benefits are said to graduate to a “pension” at retirement age. This is not true; they move from working age benefits to retirement age benefits. A pension is payment of monies previously paid in. The fact that your DWP entitles them “benefits”, corby, does not alter this. See this definition of a “pension”:

“a fixed amount, other than wages, paid at regular intervals to a person or to the person's surviving dependents in consideration of past services, age, merit, or loss sustained, etc.: e.g. a retirement pension. “

Note the important phrase “…in consideration of past services…” Hence, no past services (or contributions), no pension. The government (via the DWP) obviously wants to portray an aura of munificence and give the impression they are providing something for nothing. In fact they are only doing so when the recipient has paid nothing in.

"why does this say NA for 2013-14 for the over 65 allowance, please? "

Because the higher tax allowance for over 65s is to be abolished, boxtops.