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Who Else Is Free To Speak Out?
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Is this typical Guardian reporting on some university scare tactic report, all part of the reason that some are a little slow in addressing this growing problem, in case they are also branded of being members of Far-Right organisations such as the EDL or the BNP?
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jake-the-peg
The reason i attached those links was because this thread is about such gangs, but then such as you would fail to notice that fact by using your oh too often tactic of giving none appropriate opposing examples.
If you care to start up a link of your own regarding your examples please feel free to do so.
The reason i attached those links was because this thread is about such gangs, but then such as you would fail to notice that fact by using your oh too often tactic of giving none appropriate opposing examples.
If you care to start up a link of your own regarding your examples please feel free to do so.
On a serious note, we should be aware of the slow but inexorable rise of the far right in Britain, and also in Europe. Its not just the idiots in UKIP, BNP, or EDL.
Nazis are marching in Greece, a country that was devastated by the Germans during WW2. So we should realise that the 1930's could happen all over again. Its not impossible. Don't forget that British publications like the Daily Mail, supported Hitler, Mussolini and Mosley.
For yesterdays Jews, read today's Poles !
We must never forget the lessons that history has taught us.
Nazis are marching in Greece, a country that was devastated by the Germans during WW2. So we should realise that the 1930's could happen all over again. Its not impossible. Don't forget that British publications like the Daily Mail, supported Hitler, Mussolini and Mosley.
For yesterdays Jews, read today's Poles !
We must never forget the lessons that history has taught us.
What really annoys me about people like the MNP is that they set themselves up as some sort of boundary guardians, uninvited, unasked, and with a wonderfully even-handed approach - a chip on both shoulders!
My stance is - I am extremely fortunate to have been born on this section of the planet, with all the privelidges and rights that come with it.
That does not entitle me to 'ownership' of my bit, and the right to refuse others access to it - that is such a high-handed arrogant approach, usually left to bigoted thickies who confuse their 'rights' with the simple ability to adopt an unearned superior attitude.
Why do they all seem to have shaven heads, big boots, and ugly faces?
Is that just a coincidence?
My stance is - I am extremely fortunate to have been born on this section of the planet, with all the privelidges and rights that come with it.
That does not entitle me to 'ownership' of my bit, and the right to refuse others access to it - that is such a high-handed arrogant approach, usually left to bigoted thickies who confuse their 'rights' with the simple ability to adopt an unearned superior attitude.
Why do they all seem to have shaven heads, big boots, and ugly faces?
Is that just a coincidence?
What lesson from history do we get from 1930s Britain ? Mosley got nowhere; superficially attractive to some he was soon shown in his true colours, discredited and finally overwhelmed by events. Unlike 1930s Germany, we have an established democracy, we have not had the equivalent of the Weimar Republic, we have not just been brought down by defeat in a World War and demands for reparations. In what way is there any similarity in the causes of the rise of Nazism and anything in Britain now ?
There will always be people, disaffected, who see a minority as the cause of evils and themselves as patriots, but they will always be a minority here.
There will always be people, disaffected, who see a minority as the cause of evils and themselves as patriots, but they will always be a minority here.
I'm sorry that you seem to resent research being carried out into the EDL by one of the finest research institutions in the world, AOG. But then again I suppose your mistrust of British academia is to be expected considering it seldom seems to agree with you (so it must be wrong).
It's a shame though, because the UK consistently and deservedly occupies a vastly disproportionate swathe of pretty much any ranking of the top universities in the world. I would have thought a self-described patriot would take more interest in Britain's long and illustrious history of thinking.
It's a shame though, because the UK consistently and deservedly occupies a vastly disproportionate swathe of pretty much any ranking of the top universities in the world. I would have thought a self-described patriot would take more interest in Britain's long and illustrious history of thinking.
andy-hughes
/// That does not entitle me to 'ownership' of my bit, and the right to refuse others access to it. ///
So we can count on you Andy if we ever have the need to defend this country against foreign invaders?
/// that is such a high-handed arrogant approach, usually left to bigoted thickies who confuse their 'rights' with the simple ability to adopt an unearned superior attitude. ///
/// Why do they all seem to have shaven heads, big boots, and ugly faces? ///
If all else fails why not revert to insults and uncertified stereotyping, this type of juvenile thinking prevents any reasonable adult debate.
/// That does not entitle me to 'ownership' of my bit, and the right to refuse others access to it. ///
So we can count on you Andy if we ever have the need to defend this country against foreign invaders?
/// that is such a high-handed arrogant approach, usually left to bigoted thickies who confuse their 'rights' with the simple ability to adopt an unearned superior attitude. ///
/// Why do they all seem to have shaven heads, big boots, and ugly faces? ///
If all else fails why not revert to insults and uncertified stereotyping, this type of juvenile thinking prevents any reasonable adult debate.
AOG - I feel you are missing my point - possibly in the interests of debate.
I did use the term 'access' very carefully - and access is not the same as invasion, as you very well know. Coming into the country to work and live is not the same as invading by military force with a mission to enforce another alien way of life on the incumbents - ask the Iraquis and the Afghans!
My remark about shaven heads, big boots and ugly faces was an attempt to introduce a little levity into the proceedings, obviously I failed, and for that I apologise for any misunderstanding.
I did use the term 'access' very carefully - and access is not the same as invasion, as you very well know. Coming into the country to work and live is not the same as invading by military force with a mission to enforce another alien way of life on the incumbents - ask the Iraquis and the Afghans!
My remark about shaven heads, big boots and ugly faces was an attempt to introduce a little levity into the proceedings, obviously I failed, and for that I apologise for any misunderstanding.
Jews were a hated minority under the Nazi regime, aog. Whether Poles are a hated minority in this country now is debatable, but their presence here is certainly resented by some, hence the comparison. It's not a question of World War II !
Do you question whether all of us could be counted upon if this country was invaded? And what invasion do you think is most likely?
Do you question whether all of us could be counted upon if this country was invaded? And what invasion do you think is most likely?
Kromovaracun
Before you put Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens of KCL's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation, one of the report's authors on a pedestal, perhaps you would care to read into his thinking, he seems almost qualified to become the leader of the EDL.
http://
/// His definition of Islamism is pretty broad and encompasses most elements of the organized Muslim community in the U.K., including, in particular, progressive elements that have been active in the anti-war movement and in opposing Islamophobic movements like the English Defense League and other elements of the far right. Meleagrou-Hitchens does not like the anti-war movement, referring to its supporters as ‘a rag-tag army of poorly informed students, unemployed people, members of fringe Socialist parties and Islamists,’ and, ‘this mass of dreadlocked unemployed people.’[10] ///
/// “Meleagrou-Hitchens writes in the introduction to his blog that ‘proponents and apologists of this ideology [Islamism] must be discredited and resisted.’[13] This statement neatly summarizes his modus operandi since his main efforts are devoted to smearing and discrediting Muslim community activists, and other critics of foreign policy and Islamophobia as apologists for ‘terrorism.’ ///
Before you put Alexander Meleagrou-Hitchens of KCL's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation, one of the report's authors on a pedestal, perhaps you would care to read into his thinking, he seems almost qualified to become the leader of the EDL.
http://
/// His definition of Islamism is pretty broad and encompasses most elements of the organized Muslim community in the U.K., including, in particular, progressive elements that have been active in the anti-war movement and in opposing Islamophobic movements like the English Defense League and other elements of the far right. Meleagrou-Hitchens does not like the anti-war movement, referring to its supporters as ‘a rag-tag army of poorly informed students, unemployed people, members of fringe Socialist parties and Islamists,’ and, ‘this mass of dreadlocked unemployed people.’[10] ///
/// “Meleagrou-Hitchens writes in the introduction to his blog that ‘proponents and apologists of this ideology [Islamism] must be discredited and resisted.’[13] This statement neatly summarizes his modus operandi since his main efforts are devoted to smearing and discrediting Muslim community activists, and other critics of foreign policy and Islamophobia as apologists for ‘terrorism.’ ///
andy-hughes
/// I did use the term 'access' very carefully - and access is not the same as invasion, as you very well know. ///
Yes I can see your point, but to me 'access' even though allowed by a small group of elected leaders, can also mean 'an invasion' by those in the country who were never consulted on the matter of allowing in tens of thousands of foreign persons into the country so as to take up all the benefits, privileges, and resources that the indigenous population has spent thousands of years obtaining and sometimes fighting for.
/// Coming into the country to work and live is not the same as invading by military force ///
Of course not, that is perfectly obvious, but your reference to coming here to to work and live is valid only if they do, but you know as well as I do that a very large proportion allowed into this country are economic immigrants, who will only take more than they will give.
/// with a mission to enforce another alien way of life on the incumbents - ask the Iraquis and the Afghans! ///
For right or for wrong our missions into Iraq and Afghanistan wasn't in anyway missions to enforce another alien way of life onto their peoples, didn't we fight side by side with Iraqis and Afghanis, against those who were terrorising their countries, and any Western culture that we bring into their countries will leave when we leave their countries
But one could rightly say that with the introduction of different alien cultures into the traditional British culture, we in this country are having an alien way of life forced on it's incumbents, and the difference being with those other countries you mentioned, our alien cultures are here to stay.
/// I did use the term 'access' very carefully - and access is not the same as invasion, as you very well know. ///
Yes I can see your point, but to me 'access' even though allowed by a small group of elected leaders, can also mean 'an invasion' by those in the country who were never consulted on the matter of allowing in tens of thousands of foreign persons into the country so as to take up all the benefits, privileges, and resources that the indigenous population has spent thousands of years obtaining and sometimes fighting for.
/// Coming into the country to work and live is not the same as invading by military force ///
Of course not, that is perfectly obvious, but your reference to coming here to to work and live is valid only if they do, but you know as well as I do that a very large proportion allowed into this country are economic immigrants, who will only take more than they will give.
/// with a mission to enforce another alien way of life on the incumbents - ask the Iraquis and the Afghans! ///
For right or for wrong our missions into Iraq and Afghanistan wasn't in anyway missions to enforce another alien way of life onto their peoples, didn't we fight side by side with Iraqis and Afghanis, against those who were terrorising their countries, and any Western culture that we bring into their countries will leave when we leave their countries
But one could rightly say that with the introduction of different alien cultures into the traditional British culture, we in this country are having an alien way of life forced on it's incumbents, and the difference being with those other countries you mentioned, our alien cultures are here to stay.
FredPuli43
/// Jews were a hated minority under the Nazi regime, aog. Whether Poles are a hated minority in this country now is debatable, but their presence here is certainly resented by some, hence the comparison. It's not a question of World War II !///
Then why mention it?
/// Do you question whether all of us could be counted upon if this country was invaded? And what invasion do you think is most likely? ///
Obviously not, since we have in a way been invaded, the population was given no say in the mass immigration into this country since post WW2.
An invasion by a foreign persons is only a forced invasion if the rulers of a country take opposition to their arrival, if the rulers want foreign nationals in it is called immigration, even though the ordinary person may be against them coming.
It is these persons who should be classes as patriotic unarmed freedom fighters, but instead are very often labelled Far-Right Wingers, Fascists, racists, and Xenophobics.
/// Jews were a hated minority under the Nazi regime, aog. Whether Poles are a hated minority in this country now is debatable, but their presence here is certainly resented by some, hence the comparison. It's not a question of World War II !///
Then why mention it?
/// Do you question whether all of us could be counted upon if this country was invaded? And what invasion do you think is most likely? ///
Obviously not, since we have in a way been invaded, the population was given no say in the mass immigration into this country since post WW2.
An invasion by a foreign persons is only a forced invasion if the rulers of a country take opposition to their arrival, if the rulers want foreign nationals in it is called immigration, even though the ordinary person may be against them coming.
It is these persons who should be classes as patriotic unarmed freedom fighters, but instead are very often labelled Far-Right Wingers, Fascists, racists, and Xenophobics.
^ I don't understand the point you're trying to make AOG. I agree with Meleagrou-Hitchens that are some frequently-occuring undesirable elements among organised Islam in the UK. Contrary to what you seem think, critical commentary on Islam is actually very common and diverse among researchers and academics.
Criticism of Islam done in a rigorous way, however, does not equate to condoning the ignorant, thuggish and demagogic manner in which the EDL conducts itself.
Criticism of Islam done in a rigorous way, however, does not equate to condoning the ignorant, thuggish and demagogic manner in which the EDL conducts itself.
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