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Are Some Of Our Young Becoming More Sadistically Violent, Than They Ever Were In The Past?
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What makes three youngsters attack and kill a lone man just for the fun of it, or was their future mapped out for them as soon as they came into the world?
The two Brothers also had another brother already in jail for murder, and their 'Mother' was also jailed because she had given the pair a false alibi to shield them from detectives.
What makes three youngsters attack and kill a lone man just for the fun of it, or was their future mapped out for them as soon as they came into the world?
The two Brothers also had another brother already in jail for murder, and their 'Mother' was also jailed because she had given the pair a false alibi to shield them from detectives.
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One cannot assume that their lives were mapped out from birth, but you could argue strongly, that their home environment was a contributory factor.
Some other comments here:
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Some other comments here:
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I blame the parents ! (Actually, that response may not be far off, this time. You coud be right in saying that their future was mapped out, at least so some degree, by genetic disposition to viloence and by upbringing.
And they weren't black, Muslim, or immigrants, aog. Find some little consolation in that. On the other hand, they can't be deported either
And they weren't black, Muslim, or immigrants, aog. Find some little consolation in that. On the other hand, they can't be deported either
I think that people are becoming desensitised to extreme violence thanks to technology today. There was a time when kids didn't know what necklacing was but now they watch it on their phone. Oddly even facebook permit people to publicly post the aftermath of extreme violence, as long as the person is already dead and injured. I suppose children predisposed to being complete mentalists may well try to emulate what they have seen.
I believe the "mother" has 4 children in prison now. She must be glowing with pride.
I believe the "mother" has 4 children in prison now. She must be glowing with pride.
No, sadists have always existed and always will, sometimes from nice stable families, but it seems these boys were brought up in an environment where violent crime and the idea they were above the law were green lighted as acceptable behaviour by their mother. It seems it was a disastrous upbringing as all of her children and herself are now in prison for serious offences.
Increasing violence has been a cry for many a year. I suspect the perception is just that, rather than any real increase in violence. One has to merely read historical pieces to learn what was common in times past. And of course during war time I suspect many violent feeling already had an outlet and many would be sick of the violence the war brought so were less inclined to be so in society once away from the battlezones. Regretfully I'm sure this is not the first case of tramps being set upon. It is a hazardous way of life, vulnerable to any morn that wants a sadistic bit of fun.
As for whether it was nature or nurture, that's a question debated on many occasions and science still hasn't tied an answer down. Is it the genes or the upbringing ? Maybe some of each ?
As for whether it was nature or nurture, that's a question debated on many occasions and science still hasn't tied an answer down. Is it the genes or the upbringing ? Maybe some of each ?
Awful though this case is, we should bear in mind that these three boys are exceptional in being found guilty of murder. Very, very few kids in Britain commit murder. These boys come from the same part of the world that the Bulger case came from, but any similarity ends there. The Bulger case, dreadful as it was, was extremely unusual.
Its environment and upbringing. Allowing very young children to be desensitised to violence by partaking in violent 18+ video games does not help. In my past professional career I've dealt with a few very troubled young people whose behaviour correlated with being allowed to partake of the most violent video games and watch the most horrendous horror movies -There has always been violent people - but today technology seems to encourage violent behaviour for enjoyment.
I agree magsmay but how do we put the genie back into the bottle ?
The internet is full of very disturbing stuff, easily accessible in seconds by any computer-savvy youngster ( ie every kid in the UK ! ) I'm not sure how we can undo all the technical changes that have happened since TV first became popular in the 1950's.
We are celebrating the 50th anniversary of Doctor who at present. I was born in 1953, so I was ten years old when Doctor Who started. My Mother wouldn't allow me to watch it because she thought the Daleks were so scary that it would give me nightmares. I was very niffed about this, as all the other boys watched it and talked about nothing else in school of a Monday morning.
But parents were perhaps over-protective 50 years ago, and times have changed. Violent video games seem to comprise pretty much 100% of the games available, if the computer game collection of my 13 year old nephew is anything to go by. You have to really struggle to find one that doesn't involve killing people. Fluffy bunnies don't feature at all.
I don't know what the answer is. Censoring the internet is a almost impossible task.
The internet is full of very disturbing stuff, easily accessible in seconds by any computer-savvy youngster ( ie every kid in the UK ! ) I'm not sure how we can undo all the technical changes that have happened since TV first became popular in the 1950's.
We are celebrating the 50th anniversary of Doctor who at present. I was born in 1953, so I was ten years old when Doctor Who started. My Mother wouldn't allow me to watch it because she thought the Daleks were so scary that it would give me nightmares. I was very niffed about this, as all the other boys watched it and talked about nothing else in school of a Monday morning.
But parents were perhaps over-protective 50 years ago, and times have changed. Violent video games seem to comprise pretty much 100% of the games available, if the computer game collection of my 13 year old nephew is anything to go by. You have to really struggle to find one that doesn't involve killing people. Fluffy bunnies don't feature at all.
I don't know what the answer is. Censoring the internet is a almost impossible task.
Hi Mikey - I totally agree with you -I regularly have stand up arguments in Games World with my 12 year old wanting to purchase 18+ games -needless to say he never wins - but in shops like that you regularly hear 8 and 9 year olds telling mates they've reached level whatever on Black Op's or whatever these games are called. Oh and the excuses to purchase games are hilarious - you are only killing aliens -or -there isn't any blood they just disappear lol. the genie cannot be put back in the bottle -lots of these games are bought to pacify and babysit children who should be doing other things -real sports -real outdoor stuff. One of sons friends never goes outside at home -he comes to us and has a great time -he loves Roblox which is a construction game online -he came to us and they were constructing real dens outside - with real wood - gt filthy dirty and had a whale of a time- things have changed for the worse and theres no going back ;-(
No - but the media make far more of it these days.
This is an exceptional case - a horrible collision of absent parenting, social environment, learning difficulties, and a general absence of any sense of normal behaviour.
But the key word is 'exceptional' and it should not be used - as the Mail is fond of doing - to back up the twisted notion that somehow being on benefits is used as a reason for bad behaviour.
Bad role modelling, absence of discipline, poor environment, lack of parental control - all are possible in any family, and not merely the preserve of the disadvantaged.
The Mail panders to its Middle England readership who have no concept - much less experience - of life like this family have endured, and its resultant erosion of simple value for human life - but that does not make it a template for a generation of young people.
This is an exceptional case - a horrible collision of absent parenting, social environment, learning difficulties, and a general absence of any sense of normal behaviour.
But the key word is 'exceptional' and it should not be used - as the Mail is fond of doing - to back up the twisted notion that somehow being on benefits is used as a reason for bad behaviour.
Bad role modelling, absence of discipline, poor environment, lack of parental control - all are possible in any family, and not merely the preserve of the disadvantaged.
The Mail panders to its Middle England readership who have no concept - much less experience - of life like this family have endured, and its resultant erosion of simple value for human life - but that does not make it a template for a generation of young people.
Environment plus upbringing. It it surely beyond coincidence that this woman now has 3 sons doing time for murder and another one, if I am reading the article right, done for manslaughter - and she herself willing to offer a false alibi, which kind of demonstrates how irresponsible she is.
The judge summed it up pretty well, calling her pathetic, and offering this
"‘Your code of honour was to protect your boys in their hour of need at any price, particularly if that price was honesty and decency,’ the judge added. ‘You behaved how you did despite the serious nature of the charge your sons faced and persisted in attempts to give them a false alibi for two months.
‘Not even a mother is entitled to lie with impunity to save her sons who she knows to have been involved in a terrible crime.’"
The judge summed it up pretty well, calling her pathetic, and offering this
"‘Your code of honour was to protect your boys in their hour of need at any price, particularly if that price was honesty and decency,’ the judge added. ‘You behaved how you did despite the serious nature of the charge your sons faced and persisted in attempts to give them a false alibi for two months.
‘Not even a mother is entitled to lie with impunity to save her sons who she knows to have been involved in a terrible crime.’"
I strongly disagree about video games, dvds etc being the cause of this sort of behaviour. I don't know a teenager who doesn't play these games, watch these DVD's but none of them behave like this or ever would. there is also conflicting research on the subject.It is bad parenting, deprivation and a lack of decent adult role models that cause this not playing Balck Ops, that's just absurd.
Not that many people die in Fifa Football 2013...
Violent Games are if anything a catalyst. You're a child of a broken home, parents not providing the moral guidance you need, and you come across a violent video game or film. You enjoy it lots but fail to realise that it's a fiction and not reality, and go out to put into real life what should have stayed fantasy. (That's probably too close to Bohemian Rhapsody lyrics...)
Anyway, if you play violent video games it doesn't make you violent. Unless you already were to start with. I've played the Godfather video game in my time and happily massacred hundreds of innocent civilians with a sub-machine gun, but they're really just pixels and I never forget that and never want to do the same in real life.
Upbringing, that's what matters. If a child plays Call of Duty and then wants to kill people, they were already violent and just found a new source of inspiration. With proper guidance video games are just that: games.
Violent Games are if anything a catalyst. You're a child of a broken home, parents not providing the moral guidance you need, and you come across a violent video game or film. You enjoy it lots but fail to realise that it's a fiction and not reality, and go out to put into real life what should have stayed fantasy. (That's probably too close to Bohemian Rhapsody lyrics...)
Anyway, if you play violent video games it doesn't make you violent. Unless you already were to start with. I've played the Godfather video game in my time and happily massacred hundreds of innocent civilians with a sub-machine gun, but they're really just pixels and I never forget that and never want to do the same in real life.
Upbringing, that's what matters. If a child plays Call of Duty and then wants to kill people, they were already violent and just found a new source of inspiration. With proper guidance video games are just that: games.
Mary Bell:
// On 25 May 1968, the day before her 11th birthday, Mary Bell strangled four-year-old Martin Brown in a derelict house.[1] She was believed to have committed this crime alone. Between that time and a second killing, she and a friend, Norma Joyce Bell (no relation), aged 13, broke into and vandalised a nursery in Scotswood, leaving notes that claimed responsibility for the killing. The police dismissed this incident as a prank.
On 31 July 1968, the pair took part in the death, again by strangling, of three-year-old Brian Howe, on wasteland in the same Scotswood area.[1] Police reports concluded that Mary Bell had later returned to his body to carve an "N" into his stomach with a razor; this was then changed using the same razor but with a different hand to an "M". Mary Bell also used a pair of scissors to cut off some of Howe's hair, scratch his legs, and mutilate his penis. //
Or the Bulger killers.
These incidents are very rare, but they are nothing new. Each generation seems to throw one up.
// On 25 May 1968, the day before her 11th birthday, Mary Bell strangled four-year-old Martin Brown in a derelict house.[1] She was believed to have committed this crime alone. Between that time and a second killing, she and a friend, Norma Joyce Bell (no relation), aged 13, broke into and vandalised a nursery in Scotswood, leaving notes that claimed responsibility for the killing. The police dismissed this incident as a prank.
On 31 July 1968, the pair took part in the death, again by strangling, of three-year-old Brian Howe, on wasteland in the same Scotswood area.[1] Police reports concluded that Mary Bell had later returned to his body to carve an "N" into his stomach with a razor; this was then changed using the same razor but with a different hand to an "M". Mary Bell also used a pair of scissors to cut off some of Howe's hair, scratch his legs, and mutilate his penis. //
Or the Bulger killers.
These incidents are very rare, but they are nothing new. Each generation seems to throw one up.
I disagree about the video games but a little troll of the internet and you will find teenagers videoing themselves committing horrendous acts of violence upon one another. Especially when it comes to gang violence. Deprivation seems to play a role but in the right people watching violence is going to be inspirational.
Of course watching violence (or playing video games) has an effect, but you have to be susceptible to it before it matters. Normal people can blow up buildings on video games and not want to do the same in real life because they know how to distinguish reality and fantasy. But if you don't know how to, it will make a difference. Either way, video games are not a major cause of the issue.
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