Quizzes & Puzzles22 mins ago
Stephen Lawrence Murder 20 Years On.
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It is now twenty years since the brutal and savage murder of Stephen Lawrence, some say we live is a much less violent society than years ago, if this is true isn't it now time that a final line was drawn under this historic case and closure put on the whole affair?
This one murder has taken up enough time, what with an inquiry, not to mention the huge costs in resources and police time, after all they have already tried, found guilty and imprisoned two members of the gang that committed this act, that is much more than can be said for those more numerous gangs who are guilty of not only white murders but also black on black killings.
It is now twenty years since the brutal and savage murder of Stephen Lawrence, some say we live is a much less violent society than years ago, if this is true isn't it now time that a final line was drawn under this historic case and closure put on the whole affair?
This one murder has taken up enough time, what with an inquiry, not to mention the huge costs in resources and police time, after all they have already tried, found guilty and imprisoned two members of the gang that committed this act, that is much more than can be said for those more numerous gangs who are guilty of not only white murders but also black on black killings.
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AOG
Can you please justify this statement:
after all they have already tried, found guilty and imprisoned two members of the gang that committed this act, that is much more than can be said for those more numerous gangs who are guilty of not only white murders but also black on black killings.
You are stating that there are a large number of unsolved murders where the suspect(s) are black.
This is simply untrue.
Can you please justify this statement:
after all they have already tried, found guilty and imprisoned two members of the gang that committed this act, that is much more than can be said for those more numerous gangs who are guilty of not only white murders but also black on black killings.
You are stating that there are a large number of unsolved murders where the suspect(s) are black.
This is simply untrue.
Mikey, you have just trashed a rather good post with this tirade
//Thanks sp1814 ! What I have said just seems like common sense to me, but then again, common sense to racist, bigoted and stupid people may not mean the same thing ! //
People can hold different opinions to you without being racist and bigoted. In fact that sort of right-on holier than though talk is what stirs up racial hatred and fuels bigots and rather belittles your own post.
//Thanks sp1814 ! What I have said just seems like common sense to me, but then again, common sense to racist, bigoted and stupid people may not mean the same thing ! //
People can hold different opinions to you without being racist and bigoted. In fact that sort of right-on holier than though talk is what stirs up racial hatred and fuels bigots and rather belittles your own post.
YMB. Thanks for your compliments regarding my original post.
However AOG's implication in his post was that if the skin colours in the Lawrence affair had been reversed, then it would have been treated diffidently. He was also clear that he thought that the case had taken up enough time and should now be forgotten about.
As some of the people who took part in the murder are still at large, that is clearly not the case. I never let racism and bigotry go unchallenged, but I suppose everybody has a right to be stupid.
So I withdraw the charge of stupidity in connection with common sense from my second post.
However AOG's implication in his post was that if the skin colours in the Lawrence affair had been reversed, then it would have been treated diffidently. He was also clear that he thought that the case had taken up enough time and should now be forgotten about.
As some of the people who took part in the murder are still at large, that is clearly not the case. I never let racism and bigotry go unchallenged, but I suppose everybody has a right to be stupid.
So I withdraw the charge of stupidity in connection with common sense from my second post.
No baz...only those people who spout bigotry and racism. Let me make it absolutely clear....I have never let racism pass unchallenged and I don't intend to do anything differently in the future. Racism and bigotry go hand-in-hand.
Not sure what being "leftie" has to do with the Stephen Lawrence affair though. Was the Stephen Lawrence Public Enquiry a "leftie" affair ? What an extraordinary thought ! Didn't the Daily Mail mount a wonderful campaign to get the killers brought to justice ? The newspaper did a marvellous job but you can't get any more right-wing than the DM ! As you are far from being a leftie, I'm sure we would all appreciate your views on the case.
I have, however, now decided to try to ignore stupidity. Its going to be jolly difficult but I am going to give it a good go !
Not sure what being "leftie" has to do with the Stephen Lawrence affair though. Was the Stephen Lawrence Public Enquiry a "leftie" affair ? What an extraordinary thought ! Didn't the Daily Mail mount a wonderful campaign to get the killers brought to justice ? The newspaper did a marvellous job but you can't get any more right-wing than the DM ! As you are far from being a leftie, I'm sure we would all appreciate your views on the case.
I have, however, now decided to try to ignore stupidity. Its going to be jolly difficult but I am going to give it a good go !
AOG - "/// That isn't true, is it? ///
"Oh and by the way, don't accuse me yet again of telling porkies."
I don;t think sp1814 is accusing you of telling a lie, merely that he believes that what you said is not true - a fine but very important point.
If you believe a statement to be true, then you cannot be accused of being a liar, but that does not mean that your statement is true, only that you believe it to be so.
"Oh and by the way, don't accuse me yet again of telling porkies."
I don;t think sp1814 is accusing you of telling a lie, merely that he believes that what you said is not true - a fine but very important point.
If you believe a statement to be true, then you cannot be accused of being a liar, but that does not mean that your statement is true, only that you believe it to be so.
dave50....I think you will find that it was the fact that the murder wasn't investigated properly by the Police, for reasons of racism and incompetence
(as proved by the conclusions of the Public Enquiry) that gave this crime a higher prominence than it would have achieved otherwise. If the Police had done their job properly in the first place, its unlikely that we would still be discussing this now, 20 years later. They didn't even give Stephen any first aid at the scene of the crime !
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the killing of a black boy is in any way more serious than the killing of a white boy, and I am not suggesting that you are saying that either dave. Far more serious crimes have been committed since ...the recent Philpott case is one that comes to mind. That case upset me more than anything had for a long time.
It might help everybody if I included a link to the Public Enquiry at this point :::::::::::
http://
Even if you think you might know all about this case, it pays to read the above. The outcome of the Enquiry was truly shocking.
(as proved by the conclusions of the Public Enquiry) that gave this crime a higher prominence than it would have achieved otherwise. If the Police had done their job properly in the first place, its unlikely that we would still be discussing this now, 20 years later. They didn't even give Stephen any first aid at the scene of the crime !
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the killing of a black boy is in any way more serious than the killing of a white boy, and I am not suggesting that you are saying that either dave. Far more serious crimes have been committed since ...the recent Philpott case is one that comes to mind. That case upset me more than anything had for a long time.
It might help everybody if I included a link to the Public Enquiry at this point :::::::::::
http://
Even if you think you might know all about this case, it pays to read the above. The outcome of the Enquiry was truly shocking.
Only too glad to oblige orderlimit !
I have already posted this but here it is again ::::
http://
The Enquiry found that the Metropolitan Police was institutionally racist. Not sure what else I can add. One of the direct results of the Enquiry was that the double jeopardy law was changed, thus allowing the two thugs Dobson and Norris to be tried again, successfully this time.
By the way, a politician that is rarely out of the news of late, a certain Michael Gove criticised the Macpherson report, by saying the it contained "tendentious reasoning and illiberal recommendations"
Makes you think doesn't it ?
I have already posted this but here it is again ::::
http://
The Enquiry found that the Metropolitan Police was institutionally racist. Not sure what else I can add. One of the direct results of the Enquiry was that the double jeopardy law was changed, thus allowing the two thugs Dobson and Norris to be tried again, successfully this time.
By the way, a politician that is rarely out of the news of late, a certain Michael Gove criticised the Macpherson report, by saying the it contained "tendentious reasoning and illiberal recommendations"
Makes you think doesn't it ?
You could, of course, read the report for yourself, Orderlimit.
Here's just one conclusion from the report:
"6.21 The failure of the first investigating team to recognise and accept racism and race relations as a central feature of their investigation of the murder of Stephen Lawrence played a part in the deficiencies in policing which we identify in this Report. For example, a substantial number of officers of junior rank would not accept that the murder of Stephen Lawrence was simply and solely "racially motivated". The relevance of the ethnicity and cultural status of the victims, including Duwayne Brooks, and Mr & Mrs Lawrence, was not properly recognised. Immediately after the murder Mr Brooks was side-lined, and his vital information was inadequately considered. None of these shortcomings was corrected or overcome."
The report is available here: http://
Here's just one conclusion from the report:
"6.21 The failure of the first investigating team to recognise and accept racism and race relations as a central feature of their investigation of the murder of Stephen Lawrence played a part in the deficiencies in policing which we identify in this Report. For example, a substantial number of officers of junior rank would not accept that the murder of Stephen Lawrence was simply and solely "racially motivated". The relevance of the ethnicity and cultural status of the victims, including Duwayne Brooks, and Mr & Mrs Lawrence, was not properly recognised. Immediately after the murder Mr Brooks was side-lined, and his vital information was inadequately considered. None of these shortcomings was corrected or overcome."
The report is available here: http://
Mikey, yes we know that MacPherson said that the police are 'institutionally Racist', but I was hoping you could point us to actual evidence that the' murder wasn't investigated properly by the Police, for reasons of racism'. (issues of incompetence, maybe).
Kevink, do you consider para 6:21, racism ? or perhaps investigative incompetence that some officers refused to accept racism as the 'sole' motive for the murder. It was incorrect not to recognise that the murder could have been solely racially motivated but is that racism.
Also Mikey, your rather juvenile comment "Is there anyone else out there that think that the Police were not racist, because I want my dinner !", is not helpful when trying to debate a subject is it.
Kevink, do you consider para 6:21, racism ? or perhaps investigative incompetence that some officers refused to accept racism as the 'sole' motive for the murder. It was incorrect not to recognise that the murder could have been solely racially motivated but is that racism.
Also Mikey, your rather juvenile comment "Is there anyone else out there that think that the Police were not racist, because I want my dinner !", is not helpful when trying to debate a subject is it.
orderlimit.......I and others on AB have been debating this issue all bloody day ! If anybody is being juvenile, its certainly not me.
The Police behaved like complete pillocks and allowed guilty people to go free. Most of them are still free, including all the incompetent constables.
Read the Macpherson Report. It changed policing, the law and attitudes to racism as nothing had done before or since......everything you could possibly want to know is there.
I have nothing further to add to this debate.
The Police behaved like complete pillocks and allowed guilty people to go free. Most of them are still free, including all the incompetent constables.
Read the Macpherson Report. It changed policing, the law and attitudes to racism as nothing had done before or since......everything you could possibly want to know is there.
I have nothing further to add to this debate.
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