british muslims

[mindbullets]

 

would it not be a good idea for the muslims of this country (and around the world )to be more public in denouncing and disowning these islamic terrorists .

perhaps they could go on a march through london to make it clear that the actions of these people are completely against thier beliefs and that the terrorists actions are not in their name.

please dont attack me if this sounds naive,just a thought.

[Zen]

Possibly they agree with the aims of the Terrorists,even though they disagree with the methods used,a bit like the Catholic Church did with the IRA or the Vatican and the Nazis.

[silly moo]

Not a bad thought, but maybe they would be too frightened of the fanatical anti Muslims we harbour here.
Don't forget that there are fanatical dangerous people in all faiths.

[MargeB]

What a bigotted, racist thing to say, you mindless cretin!

(Only kidding).

Have to agree with you there, was my sentiment after 9/11 also.

I myself am agnosticish, was Catholic for many years, and saw it close up. Zen's point is not entirely incorrect. Oh sure, you can have leaders condemn it on the telly, suuuure. Show me some action, please.

[twiglet4frog]

i think a march would be good, but it would also be worrying if there were hardly anyone attending the march. might make people think that the few numbers show many muslims agree with terror attacks (which they might not) and cause attacks against them.

Maybe the whole world could hold a march, if everyone can do it for poverty, then surely a show of soladarity around the world against terrorism? every country that believes in peace could stand up and hold a march through their capitals showing that terrorism isnt working and everyone wont be intimidated? This would then give a lot of muslim countries and communities that opportunity to stand up against terror, and to mix with other nationalities to show unified support no matter what the race, nationality, age, sex, religeon etc

[WaldoMcFroog]

I have seen countless statements from the leaders of the Muslim communties in the UK saying exactly what you're asking them to say. There's some of the most high profile ones on this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4663653.stm

I'm sorry, but it is entirely unrealistic and unreasonable to expect anything more. Why should a Muslim be expected to walk through the streets publicly declaring 'I do not support terrorism'? Since terrorism like we experienced on Thursday is totally against the teachings of the Koran, most Muslims therefore automatically do not support those actions.

The fact that the perpetrators are likely to be Muslims should not tar the vast majority with the same brush.

You wouldn't expect your GP to have had to publically denounce Harold Shipman's behaviour, just because both were doctors, would you? Should all buliders have taken out adverts in the press stating they were not mass murderers simply becuase Fred West was one?

It's the same argument.

[ESCENA]

I agree with Zen.

[Dom Tuk]

Did you ask for Catholics (irish or otherwise) to march against the IRA atrocities in London, Birmingham, Warrington, and elsewhere. It was and still is after all a Protestant and catholic divide. If you did not, why do you think it should be any different now for law abiding muslims. The plain and simple fact is and has been alluded to by many others...law abiding citizens everywhere will not want this kind of atocity...but they will still see the other side of the argument. The catholics did it and so do other muslims. I am not a muslim but when i analyse the whole terrorist angle i say to myself...if i was caught up in this, if my home were blown up from 32000 feet by Sri lankan military or by USAF then what will i do??. ask yourself this question. Are you a tamil or a Iraqi or a palestine or a catholic (in 80s Northern Ireland??).

[eupraxia]

Like most fanatics in all religions and otherwise , these people don't speak for the muslims.They speak for themselves.

They are not brave enough to say so. So they use the causes of others.

[Chillum]

I think minbullets original question came more from a "public relations" angle. I agree with many of the points made, but we must face the fact that "devide and conquor" is part of the terrorist plan. It suits their ends if anti-Muslim feelings grow in this country. Public declorations of solidarity with Britain, as well as Islam would be seen by the majority of the population as a positive thing, and that can only be for the good.

[Lolliemma]

Maybe it would be a better idea to have a march of all faiths against terrorism! Maybe if all faith leaders got together, organised it together, made a huge effort to get everyone from there faith there then walked together it would show a united force and that people can get on if they just forget wars and grudges from the past (even though some are still very fresh in peoples minds and are still happening) and looked forward! (i know that sounds very naieve) 

And you never know different faiths walking together against 1 thing might show others around the world that it can be done and help towards peace elsewhere, places that need a push towards peace!!

[jimmer]

i don't think tou've thought this through. I don't know what (if any) religious doctrine you follow, but would you like to march round london apologising for the criminal actions of some blokes you don't know or have any connection with except that they claim to believe in the same god as you?

jim

[Chillum]

jimmer, didn't tens of thousands of people do just that, when the "Not in my Name" anti-war protests happened?

[jimmer]

Chillum

its interesting you bring that up. The not in our name organisation is not based on religion or ethnicity it welcomes all people from all backgrounds. If mindbullets is recommending we all go on a march then i'm behind it 100%. The tone of the question suggests that Muslims need to work harder to distance themselves from the actions of the terrorists, I do not believe this to be the case.

 

jim

[Brugel]

The analogy between doctors/builders and Muslims doesn't work. Fred West didn't kill because he was a builder and Harold Shipman didn't kill because he was a doctor- but Islamic terrorists kill precisely because they are Muslims. Their view of what Islam is directly informs their entire existence and all their actions. It's for this reason that peaceful Muslims may feel they have a duty to make it clear that they don't support these terrorist acts. 

This is strengthened by the fact that there is support for terrorism from certain other Muslims (other builders didn't support Fred West) and also from the fact that parts of the Koran actively advocate violence against infidels, including Christians and Jews (there is nothing in a doctor's training that encourages harm towards his patients).

Presumably, Muslims have just as much of a duty to denounce violence as followers of other religions do but the fact that these particular acts are being done in their name, with the support of other Muslims and with the possibilty of support from the Koran, means that it must be to the advantage of the Muslim community to openly condemn them (which is not, incidentally, the same as apologising- someone would only make an apology if he were in some way responsible). 

[WaldoMcFroog]

" it must be to the advantage of the Muslim community to openly condemn them"

Which they have - see the link in my first post on this subject. Are you seriously suggesting each and every Muslim needs to wear a t-shirt saying 'Oh, and in case you're wondering, I don't support the terrorist bombing either' just to stop any misunderstanding?

[Brugel]

I wasn't denying that the Muslim community have condemned terrorism. I was making the point that, given that a connection can be made between Islam and various terrorist acts, it is to the advantage of the Muslim community to distance itself from these acts. This is not the same as saying that it is the duty of each and every Muslim to make an official condemnation.

[MargeB]

I am not a Muslim, so I am further from the mindset of Islamic terrorists than any Muslim. The foundations for the doctrine of the Jihad are that God's will is sacred and that God chooses only one people and the rest are infidels and do not deserve to be in his presence. Islamic terrorism and Middle-England Islam or actually most mainstream religions are all not that far apart, in my opinion. Time someone called a spade a spade, pointed to organised religion, and said 'If you're prepared to tout that kind of **ap, don't come crying to me, or distancing yourself, when your associate goes around blowing up innocent people because his form of your cr*p happens to have a different, slightly more violent flavour.'

Religion will end mankind, probably in the next couple of generations. Normal people have a right to protest against this threat to their peace.

[jimmer]

Brugel

Are you really suggesting the Koran encourages muslims to carry out atrocities such as the london bombings? I agree that fred west is not a good comparison as he didn't follow a doctrine as far as i know. A better example would be the IRA. In your opinion, do the IRA represent Catholicism, or would you say their aims are political? Furthermore, do the IRA act "in the name" of catholicism or Irish Republicanism? After all it does say "an eye for an eye" in the bible and that could brain wash ordinary catholics into terrorism.



jim

[MargeB]

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

[nedflanders]

Ive said it before and I'll say it again !

Religion is POISON !!!!