So Is Qatada To Go Home?

[DTCwordfan]

We've signed a treaty with Jordan.....apparently.

Have we really changed the rules of the game?

Why don't we put him on a plane and be done with it? What would the ramifications be except putting two fingers up to the ECHR?

[askyourgran]

He should have been stopped in the first place with his false passport. How many other undesirables do we have here because our Border Patrols were not vigilant? Can't see us getting shut of him soon. The threat of leaving the ECHR temporarily is crazy. I wish it was possible to leave it permanently but listening to Vince Cable/Liberal Party it is highly unlikely.

[lcg]

no dtc......he is firmly here to stay. i heard that the government want to leave the echr to get him out, but where would that leave the rest of us? it would certainly fit in with their grand master plan of crushing the little people.....

[DTCwordfan]

I agree, the ECHR is not something that we can walk out of easily; how many cases go in our favour.....the issue being how we can we find a way through this mess - its happened, six Home Secretaries down, the creativity being the way out.

Why don't we let a needy EEC country (Cyprus????? - Greece Number 2?) decide on it/him as a "compromise", in return for a wee backhander. As they say, everybody has their price, particularly the further east one moves.

[FredPuli43]

I'm with you, gran. We have a sovereign power to refuse entry to anyone whose presence in our country is not in the public interest, as determined by the Secretary of State. This power may be exercised even after they've landed, but ought not to be exercised long after. If a man enters on false documents, I can't see that lapse of time stops him from being thrown out (That said, we have had cases of people who've been here for decades,without falsity, working and with children born here, who've been surprised to be told they are officially illegal!)

The underlying problem, which has been allowed to overrule anything else, existed before the Human Rights Act. We could not deport anyone, by extradition, if they were wanted by a foreign power and our court held that they would suffer cruel or unusual punishment or would not receive a truly fair trial. This, in effect is what has been allowed to happen here; the only country we can send him to is Jordan, and he'll be tried there if we send him
Best answer is to try him here on evidence we have; apparently not possible; or to let him free and wait until he commits an offence such as incitement to racial or religious hatred or murder

[jim360]

The thing is, despite the false passport thing, he was granted asylum so it stopped being an issue. It's a tame excuse for throwing him out, as it was known at the time and was overlooked because of the accepted asylum case, granted 19 years ago.

[DTCwordfan]

So Jim - and others - what (constructive) things would you do resolve this appalling situation?

[askyourgran]

I didn't know about that jim. No hope at all it seems.

[askyourgran]

Dtc I'll dig the hole.............

[LazyGun]

Didn't he have links to MI5 or something? Sure I read something about him being an informant on muslim extremists in the UK or something- which is, perhaps a reason why he was allowed in and allowed to stay...

[jim360]

I'm one of those people who are very good at criticising other ideas without always being able to come up with my own. You can make your own mind up on whether that's a good trait to have or not...

Sometimes, though, it is possible to know what are the wrong answers but not what the right one is. Perhaps, simply, the answer was for Theresa May to have shown 24 hours' patience last year, so that Qatada's chance to appeal would have gone. Instead they pounced too early and the mouse managed to dodge, to continue the metaphor.

[sir.prize]

I don't think M15 love him . . . .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2234589/Secret-MI5-dossier-Hate-preacher-Abu-Qatada-issued-orders-kill-British-citizens-9-11.html

[DTCwordfan]

Spade coming over, long handle and broad/pointed digging implement as per a good old fashioned tin-miners one (the one on the right)
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tin+miner+shovel&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:%7Breferrer:source%3F%7D&oe=UTF-8&;rlz=1I7ASUT_enGB432GB404&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&;tab=wi&ei=CVZ4Uc2YEYTE0QWZ4IDYAw&biw=1366&bih=643&sei=DFZ4UZfyMYfH0QW-6YCIBQ#um=1&rls=com.microsoft:en-US%3A%7Breferrer%3Asource%3F%7D&rlz=1I7ASUT_enGB432GB404&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=tin+miner%27s+spade&oq=tin+miner%27s+spade&;gs_l=img.12...6637.6775.5.8881.2.2.0.0.0.0.100.197.1j1.2.0...0.0...1c.1.11.img.pHUDcj9zZtI&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45645796,d.d2k&fp=4da04e93912fbd8f&biw=1366&bih=643&imgrc=MKonvWd6qoXb6M%3A%3BFU5tKzTwD09C2M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fremodelista.com%252Fimg%252Fsub%252Fuimg%252F%252F06-2012%252F700_japanese-stainless-steel-shovel-spade.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fnomology3.rssing.com%252Fchan-3331811%252Fall_p14.html%3B700%3B700

[LazyGun]

@Thanks for that, sur.prize.

This is the article I was thinking, of, from The Times back in mid 2000s.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:E5zIk2brtZgJ:www.physics911.ca/pdf/timesonlinecouk_013105017500.pdf+%22Al-Qaeda+cleric+exposed+as+an+MI5+double+agent%22&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESix1anC5OKf14xLlyGV6S5KM_zLiLwDd6ig4lSXLTtN4PrXrWx_HRDVvVi7SbrTeBfBJjrCzlR7YrbYLZ0nDOWIzh2b-kdetcT9-FSQgMEWle59Yj9hsLu5QhGfJlPjjYX8-ARl&sig=AHIEtbTlX0pCBk8PhOeIlaAKIwDs0FHnWg

[Gromit]

Indeed LazyGun. He was protected as an MI5 informant and requests from Jordan for him to be returned to face justice were ignored. After 9/11 the British were put under pressure from the US because Muhammed Atta, one of the hijackers had a tape of a Qatada sermon in his picessions. It was under instructions from the US that he ceased to be an asset and he was imprisoned without being charged or a trial.

It could be said the ensuing debacle over his depirtation is entirely of our own making.

[sir.prize]

Only four months ago Qatada's family wanted to leave UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9771576/Abu-Qatada-family-say-they-want-to-leave-racist-UK.html

Give them their wish.

[craft1948]

If he's that dangerous can't we sell him to AC Milan?

[sir.prize]

. . . or Olympique de Marseille where he can team up with Joey Barton.

[craft1948]

Excellent sir.prize..................

[ST24]

I don't know all the facts about this case but from what I've read he might be deported to a country other than Jordan. While that might seem like passing the buck it could be worth considering.
Having entered the UK on a false passport it's quite possible that his passport was checked in another country. If that wasn't Jordan it could be possible to return him to that country.
He is a Jordanian citizen because the place where he was born (Bethlehem) was occupied by Jordan at the time. He is a Palestinian (a part of his name, Al-Filistini, indicates that) so it might be possible to return him to either his birthplace, which is now a part of Israel, or send him to the Palestinian Authority.
I don't know if any of these ideas has been considered but I doubt it. The nearer he approaches Jordan the more likely he will be to receive justice.

[ST24]

I've made a mistake in my previous post ; Bethlehem is a part of the Palestinian Authority not Israel - sorry about that.