Where Is Your 'war On Terror' Now President Bush?

[andy-hughes]

After this country slavishly followed the war-monger Bush in his laughably termed 'war on terror' (How can you fight a war against a concept?) and after all the loss of lives as soldiers 'protect' us - it has come to this.

It's as easy as two maniacs with weapons to kill people on British streets.

All that military power, time, money, casualties and deaths on both sides to 'protect' us, and how protected are we really?

Surely the time has come to accept that we can never 'win' this war, but we must try and find a solution to the hatred that drives Moslem extremists to hate the West so much.

If the numpties in the EDL start their 'revenge', then let's not imagine that Afghanistan will start happening right here, right now.

Enough is enough - time to try and sort this out with dialogue, because guns and bombs are not working for anyone.

[Davethedog]

Losing who's losing.



So you saying me calling you a member of the EDL is an insult, fair enough your insulted to be associated to the EDL No further comment.

PMSL Leftie! Your a hypercrit, you are using the word as an insult and as I have told you so many times you Righties think anyone who doesn't agree with you is a leftie. Farage clled Cameron a socialist because he doesn't agree with him.

You want evidence? Do what I did Google is your friend, even got pictures of the flag burning.

Richard Price? Where did you hear that from, as far as I can see the only places that say that are run by the edl, same places that tell you that Tommy was fitted up.

Burqa Robinson says the covering of faces scares people. No further comment.

Students aren't hypercrits Tommy Robinson, you and the edl are

[emmie]

so slate the EDL, they didn't do this, stupidity may be their middle name, but they didn't knock down an innocent person and kill him in cold blood. Welcome to the wonderful world of fanaticism , what makes anyone think this latest outrage is going to be the last. The police and security services have already stopped a number of recent bomb plots, one at an EDL rally, had that gone off there would have been lots of dead and injured people, not just EDL members, but bystanders as per usual. Like the tube and bus bombs, they killed indiscriminately, Muslim, Christian, Jew and Atheist, black, white, brown. As is there way. In this instance he was a soldier, wearing a Help for Hero's t shirt, so targeted specifically.

[ToraToraTora]

the left have names for those with "incorrect" views. They are the real facists.

[ToraToraTora]

Andy, I'm stll waiting for what President Hughes would have done after 911, are you having difficulty formulating that policy? I understand, It cannot be easy.

[Davethedog]

EM no one is belitteling what happened and no it won't be the last but there is the point it may not be a terrorist attack, no one has come forward and claimed it, and if it is defined because the victim was a soldier and the scum killers were muslim, I am a bit lost because they quoted the bible as well.

The edl are not helping the situation was my point and who were they protesting against by attacking the police?

Th done.

[tamborine]

Only the imams can lead the path to peace, and should be chosen with utmost care for the survival of all.

Muslims must learn their jihad against infidels means destroying 80% of mankind, a fight they will never win.

[Gromit]

ToraToraTora

After the USS Cole bombing, President Clinton bombarded the Al qaeda training camps in Afghanistan. The result - Fck all.

After 9/11, Bush spent $1trillion invading Adghanistan and Iraq. Thousands of US/UK soldiers were killed, hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed. The result - fck all,

[Kromovaracun]

May I suggest that debating the EDL might best be done on the threads already concerned with them - such as my own on revenge attacks?

I only suggest because beforehand, this thread was a stimulating discussiin about the merits and demerits of the war on terror.

[Kromovaracun]

*discussion.

Forgive me. Typing on a phone again.

[emmie]

dave i had posted a link to the eye for an eye quote, think it's on this as well, not just used from the bible, the fanatics do believe in an eye for an eye, and the man with the bloodied hands said no one is safe, he also said that this was for all those Muslims killed. The declaration that this was a terror crime was from the police, government. I happen to agree with it.

[emmie]

i don't accept the premise that the Imam are the ones to bring peace, aren't some whipping up their flock to destroy the infidel. The article by a Muslim Imam last week was the first time i had read someone come out in total condemnation of other Imam's, and some of their followers. His opinion was that we have been bending over backwards to accommodate Islam, all the while some Mosques have become home and schools to some of the fundamentalist in our midst. If i can find the link i will post it.

[emmie]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329470/Michael-Adebolajo-British-born-suspect-obsessed-radical-Islam-schoolboy.html

[ToraToraTora]

so what should have happenned gromit? Andy? the silence is deafening.

[stokemaveric]

that is a shocking comment by choudhary..no wonder incidents like this happen when they more or less encourage such vile acts..they say they are a religion of peace..never in a million years..

[Gromit]

ToraToraTora

Depends if they wanted to snuff our al qaeda or just wanted retribution and to flex their muscles. Sadly they chose the later.

One possible scenario would be to Israeli style assassinate the Taliban/al qaeda leaders from afar using no ground forces or invasion. At the same time give aid for the building of a pipeline from the Caspian sea oil fields through Afghanistan. Making sure that the resulting wealth trickles down to benefit everyone. Maybe even buying all the poppy crop for medical use. Basically finding ways to make extremely poor people better off, and making sure they know that the resulting prosperity is due to the west.

Waging war on the place for a generation is just compounding the problem for many years into the future.

[ToraToraTora]

Good idea, my only reservation though is that if the Taliban were left in place they would soon take credit for any benefit by continually undermining the truth so ultimately it would not have helped but I like your thinking. The problem is that believers, by definition, are very easy to manipulate.

[jake-the-peg]

AOG

You said you do not condem them because they have done nothing wrong

Yet the EDL leader has a criminal record for violence

It seems that whilst you condemn any violence you're willing to accept that it's not wrong for group to be lead by such a person.

I can't recalll your opinion when John Prescott punched that protestor - I imagine you must have supported him through it in a similar way

Shall I check?

[TWR]

Who is it that has the problem Andy, I'm sure it's not the whites, I watch crime watch very often, who is / what colour are the cause of the problems on that show? I dare not say it otherwise will as usual get called, Drugs is a big deal in the big Cities, gun Crimes are Big in the big Cities, who seem to be behind these Problems? the Government has a lot to answer for! why? Border Control letting any Tom Dick or Harry in without doing a FULL CHECK on their back ground, I have said a few times that the kettle is boiling & it is, there is an answer, remove the problem, prison is not the answer but repatriation is & fck their H.R.

[jim360]

When once you establish the principle that Human Rights are optional, then your Human Rights are just as optional. Do not go down this road.

[andy-hughes]

Apologies for my absence from the thread - pressures of the day job.

Thank you Ed for your kind comment, it has indeed been an excellent debate - occasionally sidetracked, but some sub-debates have interest of their own.

Tora - as I explained, I have been busy, not avoiding your point.

If I were President, I would dial down the notion that I am the unelected head of some World Police Force, and it is down to me, by force, to ensure that democracy spreads as far as possible. That is as arraognt and unreasonable as the Jihadists trying to destroy non-Moslems.

I know that dialogue is difficult, next to impossible - but do we carfry on with an extended version of World War 1 - sitting in our trenches lobbing bombs at each other for years on end? I think there has to be a better way - and a breakdown of the misconceptions that surround this conflict would be a good start.

The Taliban think we are decadent infidels, the Allies think the Taliban are fanantical murders, neither is probably as true as our media-fed perceptions have us believe - and that is what we must climb over.

TWR - your notion that crime is a matter of skin colour shows a somewhat simplistic view of the issues being debated here.

Repatriation sounds wonderful - but remember, that includes British-born jihadists training in Pakistan with the Taliban - you must forcibly repatriate them back to the UK if your policy is going to be even-handed.