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Society & Culture1 min ago
Milliband's Welfare Cap
Is he just lying to grab a few floating voters from the Tories, or is he genuinely adopting Tory policies?
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Answers
I certainly think he is trying to attract the floating voters. In our first past the post system, it is likely what the floating voters do that will decide a party majority, or another coalition. And if we get another coalition in 2015, by the way, perhaps it will be time to look properly at an alternative voting system - one that offers the prospect of greater...
09:36 Fri 07th Jun 2013
I think at last even the Labour party have realised that as a country we cannot keep giving away huge amounts of money every week in benefits.
That way lies even more debt as a country.
While nobody would deny benefits for those in dire need it seems millions in this country see benefits as a free pot of money to help themselves to as they wish, without any desire to go out to work.
A benefit lifestyle has now become a career choice.
A 16 year old with no qualifications and no job. Well get pregnant, get a council flat, and live on benefits till the child is 18. Worried the child will be 18 soon, well have a couple more children, by different unnamed fathers, and you can live on benefits for decades.
Just arrived in the country, never paid a penny into the system, never mind have a council house, and here is some money every week to keep you going.
As a country we cant carry on like that.
That way lies even more debt as a country.
While nobody would deny benefits for those in dire need it seems millions in this country see benefits as a free pot of money to help themselves to as they wish, without any desire to go out to work.
A benefit lifestyle has now become a career choice.
A 16 year old with no qualifications and no job. Well get pregnant, get a council flat, and live on benefits till the child is 18. Worried the child will be 18 soon, well have a couple more children, by different unnamed fathers, and you can live on benefits for decades.
Just arrived in the country, never paid a penny into the system, never mind have a council house, and here is some money every week to keep you going.
As a country we cant carry on like that.
VHG...I agree with you apart from the last bit about immigrants. Most of them seem to be working, not on the dole. That is why they are here in the first place. There so many jobs available because the people in your first category can't or won't work. Ask the vegetable farmers in East Anglia. They can't get Brits to work in the fields for love nor money. The NHS would collapse overnight if it wasn't for foreign workers. Even if there are some foreigners claiming benefits, they pale into insignificance compared with the millions of British people accessing the system.
We have got ourselves into this situation with the long-term unemployed and dole-bludgers because of the policies of so many previous governments, both Labour and Tory. Unemployment rocketed under Mrs T's polices and people were urged to "go on the sick" because there was no other work available. Local Doctors collaborated enthusiastically in this deception. Successive governments have hidden the real unemployment rate under the blanket of sickness benefits for many years.
As long as there is an alternative to getting money by working, lots of people will take it. Everywhere in the Western world, where there is a highly geared welfare culture you will find the same situation.
I have been a Labour supporter all my adult life but I can't see any alternative to the much-needed reform of our welfare structure. This was started by the previous Labour administration. Cameron isn't doing everything right but he is making a start.
But when this culture is so embedded it is proving to be very difficult to make any deep changes. A lot has been reported about the cack-handed way that the Work Capability Assessment is being used to weed out the scroungers. Some serious mistakes have been made by ATOS but they have still managed to get a lot of people off Welfare that shouldn't be on it in the first place.
There is another aspect to this situation which isn't often discussed. Even if you do take people off benefits, how do you persuade employers to take these people on ? If I was an employer looking to recruit, I would think twice about taking someone on that has spent the last 20-30 years "on the sick" You can't force these employers to solve the welfare to work problems.
Taking away peoples benefits is relatively easy. Getting people back in real work is much harder.
We have got ourselves into this situation with the long-term unemployed and dole-bludgers because of the policies of so many previous governments, both Labour and Tory. Unemployment rocketed under Mrs T's polices and people were urged to "go on the sick" because there was no other work available. Local Doctors collaborated enthusiastically in this deception. Successive governments have hidden the real unemployment rate under the blanket of sickness benefits for many years.
As long as there is an alternative to getting money by working, lots of people will take it. Everywhere in the Western world, where there is a highly geared welfare culture you will find the same situation.
I have been a Labour supporter all my adult life but I can't see any alternative to the much-needed reform of our welfare structure. This was started by the previous Labour administration. Cameron isn't doing everything right but he is making a start.
But when this culture is so embedded it is proving to be very difficult to make any deep changes. A lot has been reported about the cack-handed way that the Work Capability Assessment is being used to weed out the scroungers. Some serious mistakes have been made by ATOS but they have still managed to get a lot of people off Welfare that shouldn't be on it in the first place.
There is another aspect to this situation which isn't often discussed. Even if you do take people off benefits, how do you persuade employers to take these people on ? If I was an employer looking to recruit, I would think twice about taking someone on that has spent the last 20-30 years "on the sick" You can't force these employers to solve the welfare to work problems.
Taking away peoples benefits is relatively easy. Getting people back in real work is much harder.
cazzz1975...twas ever thus ! Perhaps the main reason why there is a similarity between the main parties is that they are all trying to solve the same problems...unemployment, welfare reform, health care reform. etc.
But they are not all the same on all issues. Take housing. We have serious shortage of good housing in Britain today. The local authority housing stock has been run down for years, and now we need homes for people, there isn't any left. We need to build more houses. Not expensive ones, for those with two cars...we have plenty of those unsold on the market already. We need good quality houses for rent.
If we started building homes again, it would take 10,000's of plumbers, brickies, chippies, etc off the dole and into work, thus saving the welfare budget millions of pounds every year.
But they are not all the same on all issues. Take housing. We have serious shortage of good housing in Britain today. The local authority housing stock has been run down for years, and now we need homes for people, there isn't any left. We need to build more houses. Not expensive ones, for those with two cars...we have plenty of those unsold on the market already. We need good quality houses for rent.
If we started building homes again, it would take 10,000's of plumbers, brickies, chippies, etc off the dole and into work, thus saving the welfare budget millions of pounds every year.
it would, however the point is who is going to buy, and who is going to find jobs, so they can buy, and where will these be, suggest they will all be built in the south west, so that means more of our green and pleasant land going west. Time someone came up with plan to locate businesses north of the border, at least in places which could do with new blood. Much of our countryside at least 70 percent, the last time this subject came up is taken over with agriculture, so unless farmers start selling their land for housing, not sure where else they can go but down here.
I am somewhat puzzled Em. You are obviously an educated person...that is apparent from your regular postings on AB. I may not always agree with you but you express yourself very cogently.
If you know that voting for BNP-lite would be a wasted vote, why do it in the first place ? You are clearly not a natural Labour voter, but there is sufficient real difference between the main parties to make a choice of voting not terribly difficult. I don't understand why people would vote for a party that clearly has no chance, whatsoever, of winning enough seats in order to form the next Government in 2015.
If you know that voting for BNP-lite would be a wasted vote, why do it in the first place ? You are clearly not a natural Labour voter, but there is sufficient real difference between the main parties to make a choice of voting not terribly difficult. I don't understand why people would vote for a party that clearly has no chance, whatsoever, of winning enough seats in order to form the next Government in 2015.
Well lets leave out any mention of BNP-lite then. Why would you waste your precious vote in an Election by voting for Farage for the reasons that I gave above ?
Votes for fringe parties just results in one of the main parties getting a bigger majority over the other two. Are you saying that you find it difficult to distinguish between Labour, Tory and the Libs ? I could understand if you do but not voting to vote for a party that has no chance whatsoever.
Votes for fringe parties just results in one of the main parties getting a bigger majority over the other two. Are you saying that you find it difficult to distinguish between Labour, Tory and the Libs ? I could understand if you do but not voting to vote for a party that has no chance whatsoever.
It is a desperate attempt to get votes by being more Tory than the Tories. It was similar policies that stopped me voting for Blair even though Major was useless.
Labour should appeal to its core voters not alienate them. I understand they have taken on the services of a US election campaigner. I can only guess that such a policy miss has come from that individual.
Labour should appeal to its core voters not alienate them. I understand they have taken on the services of a US election campaigner. I can only guess that such a policy miss has come from that individual.
That's better em ! We all got something we didn't really want...that is how how our voting system works unfortunately. Not really sure how we can alter things to make sure it doesn't happen again. All the various proportional voting methods I have seen seem to have some fatal flaw or another.
The growth of the Liberals are the reason for our present coalition. When we had a two-party system it wasn't an issue. Most of the rest of the world seem to live with coalition governments but I guess its so new to us that we are having difficulty getting used to it. It will probably happen again on 2015.
The growth of the Liberals are the reason for our present coalition. When we had a two-party system it wasn't an issue. Most of the rest of the world seem to live with coalition governments but I guess its so new to us that we are having difficulty getting used to it. It will probably happen again on 2015.
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