What's A Few Badgers Between Friends?

[AB Editor]

So, they're rolling out a badger cull trial in Gloucester...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23845851

... And there will be protests, naturally. Will you be joining them? Or do you think the cull trial is worthwhile?

[shoota]

Also those issues you mention are addressed.
You can't move an animal from an infected area and (although I don't know any details) biosecurity is being addressed - and its efforts nullified because infected protected badgers are free to roam.

[shoota]

People are commenting and raising points that are all addressed in the links that I have posted.
I appreciate that there is a lot of reading but I tried to pick out the meat (uninfected naturally.)

[humbersloop]

I understand that Shoota, I just don't think this is the most effective or economic form of culling in terms of managing a particular problem

that I think it's also politically expedient and based on dodgy science is neither here nor there

[AB Editor]

It was orthogonality related Pixie, not directly.

My point was that vaccines and medication can work, and maybe should be used in conjunction - but that getting is wrong can lead to us simply creating more powerful viruses.

[shoota]

This contains just about everything you need:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/a-z/bovine-tb/badgers/culling/

[shoota]

Politically expedient? Perhaps but that just indicates that the problem is at crisis point
Dodgy science? Each side will produce experts to corroborate their viewpoint but dodgy science in this case would have to be proved to be dodgy over the entire continent.
Britain is the only country with a significant TB problem and the only country which doesn't undertake badger control.
I am sure that is in part due to the anthropomorphic tendency of Brits.

[jomifl]

I have long thought that the problem was that the farmers don't keep their cattle away from the badgers and that the intensive farming methods are the cause of the problem.

[mikey4444]

I agree with shoota here. Its not as if the badger is in any way an endangered species, judging by the amount that I see killed on the roads where I live in South Wales.

[DrFilth]

they might need to keep some humans away from the cows


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23777685

[shoota]

Thanks Mikey.
You may well be right jomifl but that is all in the past now and the problem is in the badgers. Thay could wipe themselves out if the incidence of infection is not checked.
There is a vaccine available but that only stops clean animals from becoming infected with a 60% success rate. It doesn't cure infected animals so is effectively useless. Given that it would have to be administered annually for several years and involves capturing all the animals at risk it would be horrendously expensive.
They are working on an orally administered vaccine but that is years away from being available.

[pixie373]

So cattle and badgers pass it between each other,
This has no danger to humans
Humans pass it between each other.
So, let's kill the badgers!?

[shoota]

There is evidence that humns are at risk from cattle pix.
Badgers are part of the problem now and cannot be excluded from the solution. You also seem to coveniently ignore the fact that badgers run the risk of infecting themselves to the point of extinction unless this disease is checked.

[Octavius]

janbee @ 11.10 - "There is no legal vaccine available for cows. Currently the only option is the BCG vaccine. At present it is impossible to distinguish between a BCG-vaccinated and TB-infected cow so it is currently illegal under EU law to vaccinate cattle with the BCG jab."

[shoota]

Rare but possible:


Can bovine TB spread to humans?

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The simple answer is 'yes', but it is not very likely. Currently less than 1% of cases of TB in humans are caused by bTB and a significant proportion of these are in humans over 70 years old (reactivation of ancient infections) or immigrants from developing countries. With modern living conditions, better sanitation and the widespread use of pasteurisation/cooking, the risk is extremely low. The Health Protection Agency has confirmed that the risk to humans is negligible (so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering). It is interesting to note that around 60% of the human population are in areas where bovine TB is either only partially controlled or not controlled at all (ref 1).

There are three ways humans can get bovine tuberculosis:
* by breathing or inhaling air contaminated with the bacteria after an infected animal or infected person coughs or sneezes very close by. However, cattle owners and TB testers on farms take no precautions when in contact with cattle, wear no masks and do not contract the disease. They do, however, suffer physical injuries because of the high health and safety risks involved with cattle handling* by drinking unpasteurised milk from an infected cow or eating raw or undercooked meat from an infected animal.* by handling infected meat in the dressing and processing of animal carcasses, especially if hands aren't washed carefully prior to consuming food. There is very little risk that an individual would contract bovine tuberculosis by this method borne out by the fact that even abattoir workers and vets very rarely contract the disease.

That's from here:

http://www.bovinetb.co.uk/article.php?article_id=24

[pixie373]

Sorry. I'm not deliberately trying to ignore anything. There seems to be some contradiction about whether infected meat is dangerous or not, so I'm asking questions, trying to work it out.

[AB Editor]

That looks like you can catch TB from infected meat, if not cooked properly - I am also uncertain now Pixie.

[shoota]

If you have only read about this problem on 'anti' or animal welfare sites then give this site a read for the other viewpoint:
http://www.tbfreeengland.co.uk/home/

[shoota]

What they say ed is that if a cow is slaughtered because it is a 'reactor' to the TB test then they chop out the lesion and the rest is ok.
They wouldnot (I hope) enter meat from a cow with full blown TB.

[AB Editor]

I've just recut that into what it asserts:

Can bovine TB spread to humans?

The simple answer is 'yes', but it is not very likely.
The risk is extremely low.
The risk to humans is negligible

There are three ways humans can get bovine tuberculosis:

1. by breathing or inhaling air contaminated with the bacteria after an infected animal or infected person coughs or sneezes very close by. However, cattle owners and TB testers on farms take no precautions when in contact with cattle, wear no masks and do not contract the disease. They do, however, suffer physical injuries because of the high health and safety risks involved with cattle handling

2. by drinking unpasteurised milk from an infected cow or eating raw or undercooked meat from an infected animal.

3. by handling infected meat in the dressing and processing of animal carcasses, especially if hands aren't washed carefully prior to consuming food. There is very little risk that an individual would contract bovine tuberculosis by this method borne out by the fact that even abattoir workers and vets very rarely contract the disease.

[AB Editor]

Ah, I see shoota.