What's A Few Badgers Between Friends?

[AB Editor]

So, they're rolling out a badger cull trial in Gloucester...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23845851

... And there will be protests, naturally. Will you be joining them? Or do you think the cull trial is worthwhile?

[Zacs-Master]

I'm spectating on this thread with great interest. Please don't let it go off on a ridiculous hypothesis involving aliens.

I think Shoota is making a very good case for the cull BTW. If only people would take the time to read his links we might be able to come to some rational, rather than emotional, conclusion.

Well, it would be a first!

[emmie]

5,000 thousand or so isn't a bunch, it's a lot, and only in two areas, so what happens when they decide to do the rest of the country?
or will it be only farming areas that are to get this cull..

[emmie]

from the link

We must not lose sight of the problem that we are trying to address. We are tackling a very resilient pathogenic micro-organism, Mycobacterium bovis. Badgers are an excellent reservoir host for this bacterium because they can often carry and spread the TB bacterium without showing signs of disease or without serious illness.

so if they show no signs of the disease, how do they know they have it.

[AB Editor]

"all animals, whether domesticated or wild should be treated with as much respect as one can muster"

What does that mean for you? For example, here's the headlines of the human rights act:

Right to life
Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
Right to liberty and security
Freedom from slavery and forced labour
Right to a fair trial
No punishment without law
Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence
Freedom of thought, belief and religion
Freedom of expression
Freedom of assembly and association
Right to marry and start a family
Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms
Right to peaceful enjoyment of your property
Right to education
Right to participate in free elections

So some of it obviously doesn't apply - but what about the right to family life? Or, most worrying in the case of cats, the right to peaceful enjoyment of your property?

I asked if you'd support a cull in the case of over-population in badgers - so it's a choice of cull, or let them starve. What would you do in that situation? (Sorry if I have missed you answer).

[AB Editor]

"will it be only farming areas that are to get this cull."

I think it's suggested that it will be in "belts" around farmland with cattle.

"so if they show no signs of the disease, how do they know they have it."

I believe they can do blood tests or similar.

[emmie]

that was what i was saying, that they have to take them first to test, is that what they will do, or simply cull them without the preamble of a test..
because the time it will take to capture all the animals to test for TB, i just can't see that happening.

[emmie]

i was of course referring to the mostly four legged varieties, and those don't have a say in anything we do to them..

[shoota]

Thank you Zacs.
Unfortunately I think that badgers and rationality will never lie down together whilst the one is soft and fluffy and the other requires some effort!

[emmie]

badgers are not soft and fluffy, nor are most animals, but the human being types are most definitely the ones that rule the roost so to speak.

[Old_Geezer]

There is absolutely nothing ridiculous about putting oneself in the position of the species who is being controlled as opposed to the controlling one, and seeing if the arguemnt put forward seems equally right from the other point of view. One might ask why anyone feels the need to avoid looking at it from that viewpoint.

I don't think the cute little animal argument works. Most of this thread is about the treating other species in a morally correct manner argument.

[emmie]

ED, some of those rights apply to our four legged friends, some obviously do not, simply because they have no way to communicate their needs, unless a dog, cat, which usually need love, food, not necessarily in that order.

[Kramer21]

I think that some of us need to step back, take a deep breath and stop the handwringing for a few moments. Ask yourself do you eat beef? Our old lifestock friend? What about the dirty and often vicious inedible badger? We're talking about a gentle cull to save our livestock and mass extinction afterall so have a look at the bigger picture before passing judgement especially if they're not that important that you're not even going to protest physically regarding the cull.

[Kramer21]

And NOT mass extinction^^

[emmie]

mass extinction of our livestock, where did you get that idea.
hand-wringing i don't do, however there are times i wonder at mankind, he will kill animals for profit, for fun, for greed, to test products on, to fight, like dogs, bulls, and and not just to eat.

[Old_Geezer]

What has being a normal part of the foodchain got to do with debating whether it is right to plump for an easy possible solution of killing an animal you don't even intend eating, instead of tacking the cause of the issue instead ? Are only vegans allowed to debate morality ?

[boxtops]

This is a pilot, isn't it? So when they have killed the 5000 badgers, they are going to test the carcases and see if the theory about TB is proven. They say (on the TV today) that this cull will keel 70% of the badgers in that pilot area. It's the results we should view with interest.

[Old_Geezer]

Oh and are only activist protesters allowed to debate here also ? Scorn implied on the rest.

[Kramer21]

I meant that all that's happening is a gentle culling and not mass murder of the whole badger population emmie.

[emmie]

so if they kill the 5,000 and a percentage don't have the TB strain, how will that work with other potential culls.

[boxtops]

Interesting - there was a feature in today's I paper about David Cameron's fondness for stalking deer, which is apparently OK because there are far too many deer. Nobody appears to be up in arms about that?