What's A Few Badgers Between Friends?

[AB Editor]

So, they're rolling out a badger cull trial in Gloucester...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23845851

... And there will be protests, naturally. Will you be joining them? Or do you think the cull trial is worthwhile?

[DrFilth]

[DrFilth]

try this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_dRTlUc7cw

[shoota]

The number of deer isn't an issue Pix because they are not a protected species and so may be controlled on a rolling program without applying fr special licences and undergoing all this badger palaver.
Badgers were made a protected species back in the '70's to save them from the badgerbaiters.
Since then they have known no natural predators and so have become very succesful breeders, so much so that they have come into conflict with farmers.
I don't know of any farmer who would object to the presence of a few healthy badgers in the same way that they welcome the presence of a few healthy deer.

[pixie373]

I'm still not convinced we need to control numbers of deer, or badger. What is the problem with them.We need to start with ourselves first!

[DrFilth]

> the same way that they welcome the presence of a few healthy deer. <

strange when one comes on the farm land all that work at the farm are eating venison for the next week -)

[shoota]

I'll try and put the problem in a nutshell:
Bovine TB exists.
Cattle, badgers and some other species can carry it.
Cattle and the other species can be dealt with because they are not 'protected species'.
Badgers are a protected species and studies have shown that 19% of them (a figure of up to 33% was mentioned on the news last night) are infected nd can therefore re-infect the herd that you have just eradicated TB from.
Therefore they need special licences to be issued before they can be dealt with.
These trials and test culls are an attempt to find the best/cost effective way of dealing with this 'reservoir' of TB that exists in badgers and will continue to do so unless draconian measures are taken.

[humbersloop]

how will they know they've shot the right 19%?

[shoota]

Unfortunately Hums there is no way of identifying an infected animal without capturing it first.

[pixie373]

But shoota, there doesn't appear to be a danger, those with TB will presumably die and hopefully a vaccination will be in place at some time. What is the advantage in killing healthy animals (as I'm sure will happen)? What problem is TB causing us, bearing in mind, it's not a danger to people?

[AB Editor]

"I'm still not convinced we need to control numbers of deer, or badger. What is the problem with them.We need to start with ourselves first!"

You want to cull people?

I can't really get behind that.

We control populations in other animals when they're a threat to us, other wildlife we hold dear, or are suffering mass starvation.

Nature's way of population control is starvation.

Currently badgers may be proving a threat to our food chain. One way to show your displeasure, and to help the situation, is to stop eating beef.

[AB Editor]

TB is a danger to people, especially if it isn't vaccinated properly - you kill some of the virus, but what you leave is the strong Super TB which then causes even more damage.

This is what happens when TB gets out of control: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/07/09/197739736/TB-IN-RUSSIAN-PRISONS

[shoota]

> the same way that they welcome the presence of a few healthy deer. <

strange when one comes on the farm land all that work at the farm are eating venison for the next week -)

That's exactly why they welcome the presence of few healthy deer.....
(among other reasons)

[pixie373]

Ed! I didn't say we should cull people! (not indiscriminately, anyway). Just that we should control our numbers and leave wildlife to control theirs. Natural selection...

[humbersloop]

^^^which is part of my problem with this approach to a serious and complex problem Shoota

It's costing £4 milion over two trial areas - against a national research budget of £6.5 million - and ignores farm biosecurity and cattle movement issues which are equally contributory factors to bovine TB

[pixie373]

... The link you've provided about the prisoner- did that TB come from infected cattle because a while ago you said there wasn't a danger from eating infected meat?

[shoota]

If 1 in 5 (say, for ease) badgers has TB they are likely to infect all the other 4 when they come into contact with them. It therefore follows that the problem will be self perpetuating and could result in wiping out badgers completely in infected areas.
It would only take one infected badger to stray into an uninfected area.....
It would only take one uninfected badger to stray onto Khandro's infected ground......
All these points are addressed in the links I have posted.
It is not just a gratuitous slaughter, it is a genuine attempt to do the best thing in the long run for farmers, cattle and all wildlife.

[DrFilth]

> That's exactly why they welcome the presence of few healthy deer.....
(among other reasons) <

it is a pity rats arn't as tasty as there are loads of them round the barns

[shoota]

It is the fact that if you don't include badgers in any solution Hums you leave a reservoir of TB that will continue to infect.
It would be like leaving a village with bubonic plague un-quarantined with the inhabitants free to wander.

[snags]

''and hopefully a vaccination will be in place at some time''

And until such a time?

[janbee]

Forgive my ignorance in this matter but wouldn't it be simpler and less controversial just to vaccinate all cattle against TB?