Why Don't They Come To Europe By Plane?

[Hypognosis]

One of the survivors of the Lampedusa boat sinking tragedy told a TV reporter that he'd paid $5000 for his boat trip.

Surely, this is a ludicrous claim as the air fare from Libya* can't be that steep?

Or am I missing something ultra-obvious here?

What are your thoughts?

What else can we do to stop the poor blighters from drowning by the hundreds? Send physics teachers to African ports, to run demonstrations of what happens to a boat when all the passengers run to the same side at once, perhaps?

(*) or other North African country if the Libyan airline went down the tubes amid the chaos.

[anotheoldgit]

boxtops

Ah yes remember the Vietnamese boat people, the trouble was we never sent them back.

[Zacs-Master]

Bit of a crass comment there AOG. I suggest you educate yourself about the plight if the Vietnamese boat people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people

[Hypognosis]

What gets me is that fact that the illegals are so aware that entry to that specific island equates to entry to the EU which equates to entry to any destination they want, what with this open borders principle. No matter what level of chaos in their own country, somehow information about the Euro setup filters through.

So, not a 'fix' as such but, if Lampedusa could be granted independence by Italy and it ceases to be a part of the EU, then the message must filter back home soon enough that it's no longer a useful destination and a less hazardous route might be adopted. Overland or a shorter crossing.

[boxtops]

I'd put the Vietnamese boat people in a whole different category, AOG...

I too am mystified why Lampedusa is still Italian - Malta (independent) is between Italy and Lampedusa, and the Maltese boats turn out every time there is a sea crisis. I suppose it's the same argument as "why are the Falklands still British".

[Zacs-Master]

It doesn't filter thru. Unscrupulous individuals offer to take them for stupid fees. Once they've paid they're left to fend for themselves. Making Lampedusa independent is not he answer. They would just find somewhere else.

[brainiac]

There are a reported 200,000+ Somalis in the UK. How did they all get here - just get on a plane at Mogadishu, bound for Heathrow?

[Hypognosis]

Brainiac has seen straight through the facetiousness of my opening post.

We are not worthy, we are not worthy {bow, scrape, fawn}

:-)

[Hypognosis]

Let us not forget that the Somalis we get to meet here are the middle-class, semi-posh ones, who had the ready cash to get themselves smuggled here.

The genuinely poor of their fellow countrymen are still living day to day wondering when their kids are going to get caught in the crossfire or, worse still, recruited (probably forcibly) by one of the local warlords.

So any gripe I might have with them is not about their race or nationality or their illegal method of entry to our country it's their lack of loyalty to their former country and lack of courage to stick around and fight to make things stable and life liveable there again.

The trouble is, those are easy words to say for someone who's not in their shoes. Most of us wouldn't, as individuals, attempt to take on our neighbourhood crime boss (if we even knew who that was), let alone someone with access to serious weaponry (and everyone knows who they are).

[brainiac]

I, too, have no gripe with their race or nationality - just the numbers. There are also more than 200,000 Russians, we are told, living in London. How on earth do they get through immigration 'controls' ?

[ichkeria]

I also don't think your inital question was serious, fwiw.

[Hypognosis]

@ichkeria

//I also don't think your inital question was serious, fwiw. //

A shameless tactic to get the thread noticed, you think?

[Gromit]

AOG

Your backtracking was totally unconvincing there.

What have the Vietnamese boat people got to do with this? That was the other side of the world. We gave 19,000 sanctuary, which was a pathetically low number. There was never any expectation they had to leave.

Yes, it is incredibly difficult to get to Britain from outside the EU, even for a holiday or if they have a job invitation. The applicant usually needs to be sponsored by a UK resident. That sponsor is closely vetted. They have to submit their bank accounts for scrutiny and then there is no certainty the foreigner will be accepted.

[jno]

the Russians contribute substantially to the economy

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/russian-multimillionaires-rack-up-130000-tab-going-headtohead-in-bar-bill-contest-8870845.html?origin=internalSearch

[New Judge]

I would not say it is incredibly difficult to get into the UK legally from outside the EU, Gromit. It’s about as difficult as someone from the UK wanting to travel to, say, Cuba or the USA.. Where the difference lies is that in the other countries mentioned the authorities there check that the visitor does not exceed the agreed duration of his stay. They also ensure that the visitor is not allowed to disappear into the ether and become part of the black economy, eventually working and taking advantage of all the benefits (financial and others) that the host nation has to offer and for which he will have contributed little or (more usually) nothing.

People from outside the EU travel to the UK ostensibly to study or for a holiday and then fail to leave. It’s not difficult to persuade the immigration officials that you have a genuine reason to come here and that you will leave as agreed. Of course people such as those travelling from North Africa would not be in such a position and the overriding driver for people making a hazardous journey to places such as Malta or Lampedusa is the fact that these places provide unfettered access to almost all of the EU (bar those nations which are not part of the Schengen Agreement).with no border checks. This freedom of movement is one of the wonderful advantages of the EU and the attraction to EU outposts so close to Africa by people desperate to settle in Europe is plain to see.

[ichkeria]

Lots of immigrants are not illegal when they arrive, but overstay.
That would explain some of it.

[jno]

NJ, I have never had any trouble at all going to the US or Cuba. My sister, on the other hand, did indeed find it incredibly difficult entering the UK (to see her fiancé); each time she arrived she spent hours being interrogated, despite all her papers being in order.

[New Judge]

Quite, jno.

The authorities in the places you visited obviously had no doubts about the reason for your stay and your intention to return. No doubt you did not have a fiancé to visit whom you may have married whilst you were there and that such a marriage would have given you right of abode. (And anyway, I imagine few people from the UK would choose to live in Cuba).

On the other hand a fiancé visiting the UK from abroad unfortunately arouses suspicion. You do not say where your sister arrived from but this is especially so if it is from a nation which is, shall we say, a little less prosperous. Whether this is justified or not is another issue, but it does mean that UK immigration officials need to be convinced that the visit is bona fide.

There seems to be a widespread attitude that police and border officials cannot act on their best instincts for fear of being branded racists or discriminatory. Personally I would far rather a bit of discrimination be used as it is in most other countries.

[jno]

NJ, she'd been living for some years in Australia, a country markedly more prosperous than the UK. She had the bank statements and the pay slips to demonstrate that this was so. Still she had to go through the same rigmarole every time.

Contrariwise, the Australians might well have had reason to suspect his intentions when he visited her there... but seemingly did not.

[maggiebee]

I invited an Albanian friend over for a two week holiday. The rigmarole she had to go through to get a visitor's visa was ridiculous; only got her visa at the third attempt so it cost a fortune. On top of that I had to prove I had enough money to keep her for two weeks and confirm that she would be returning at the end of her holiday. Not sure what they thought she would be doing as she is a surgeon in Albania and loves her job.

[New Judge]

Glad to hear it, maggie. Better they do that than let any old Tom Dick or Harriet in from Albania. Anyway, not to worry as Albania lodged its application to join the EU in 2009. It has not had a response yet but it won't be too long before unfettered access is available to the UK for Albanians.