National Service

[Andy008]

Is there really any practical barrier to the reintroduction of NS?

If not, why can't we bring it back? I am not some die-hard Tory voting war veteran. I am 22 and apolitical.

It seems to me to be the best way towards dragging this country out of the state it's in.

[Peter Pedant]

because even in 1962 - the last year for national service, the Army realised that it was there to kill people and not as an educational establishment.

And yes there is an even better reason not to bring back NS and that is Deepcut.

[acw]

And the Human Rights Act would probably prevent it now anyway - unless we were already at war when conscription might be allowed.

The only POSSIBLE way I could agree with National Service would be if a year's voluntary work in the community was an acceptable alternative.  Even then I'd have real problems agreeing with a plan. 

If by "the state it's in" you mean the problems with "youth" and "yob culture", then I don't necessarily think a year's NS would help.  Simply because at the end of it, most of them would end up back on the council estates, still illiterate because they chose not to bother attending school, still with a bad attitude about the rest of society, and now with extra skills in handling themselves in aggressive situations. 

PS - I am NOT making a generalisation about young people, or those who live in council housing.  I am referring only to those "yobs" who truly are yobs, and not just every young person in a hoody either!!

Please clarify Andy008, what exactly you meant by the poor state of the country.  Also - do you feel safer making this suggestion knowing that you (and I too as I'm you're age) you be too old for NS by the time it came in so it wouldn't affect you personally?

[Andy008]

I to clarify mean the general lack of respect shown by kids nowadays. I don't mean "respect" as a word so often used in popular music culture, but just general mutual respect. I have two friends who are police officers in London, one told me recently how he and his colleague picked up a 9-yr old girl wandering around the streets on an estate late one night. When asked where she lived so they could take her back, she replied "I'm not telling you, I don't like the police."

I think schools only exacerbate the problem, as I hated school with a passion, and paid little attention to teachers less intelligent than me. I was neither a victim nor a perpertrator of bullying yet saw it ignored by teachers many times.

I was last weekend threatened in the pub by a 15-year old (at 9pm on a Saturday night). Weighing some 4 stone more than him was the only thing that stopped me tearing him to shreds, coupled with the fact that I am currently taking a licensee's course.

I woke the next day wondering how on earth a situation arose whereby a child was attempting to dictate to me where I could drink, not even being old enough to drink in the pub. This, oddly enough, happened in leafy Surrey, not some kitchen-sink estate.

[acw]

How would National Service have prevented the situation that happened to you the other night?

I agree that respect needs to be regained.  However, it's been said many a time before that morality just can't be legislated. 

I'm trying to respect your comments and opinion so I won't go into your arrogant comments about being more intelligent than your teachers.  I realise not all schools are as good as the one I was fortunate enough to attend, but until people accept that the parents are the ones who spend children spend a majority of their time with, and thus stop blaming the school, we won't get anywhere. 

[bernardo]

Presumably Andy means that national service should be introduced for 9-year-old girls and 15-year-old boys.

[acw]

As ever Bernardo - a witty and smart response! You do make me smile! :-)

PS - Are you the same bernardo that used to have problems with their english because they are not a native speaker?  Or am I going mad?  Cos you're English seems pretty perfect to me! (Obviously if I'm in a muddle then that may seem patronising, but it's not meant to be!)

PPS - Sorry to hijack Andy008 - prmise not to stray off topic again. 

[woofgang]

the army is funded by the state, aka you and me. Why should the state (you and me) pay to correct poor parenting?

[jno]

I would guess woofgang (happy birthday!) the state could try to correct bad parenting if it thinks there is some national benefit in having everyone well brought up - literate, respectful, helpful, disciplined, able to work and so on. That seems a reasonable ambition to me, though not necessarily a fulfillable one. I'm not convinced that a military environment is the way to do it, anyway - as PP says, Deepcut.

acw - the phrase 'you're English' in your last post needs some work...

[georgit79]

"teachers less intelligent than me"?! what are you on? believe me, they probably enjoyed teaching you just as much as you enjoyed learning from them.

[acw]

jno - thanks for pointing that out!  *is mortified*.  Still - I suppose I could pretend that it was a deliberate mistake in an attempt further to flatter Bernardo's English!!!  Just goes to show that you can't beat a grammer (sic) school education! lol

georgeit - wouldn't you agree that with an attitude like that, Andy008 might be one of the top candidates for a screaming dressing down from a senior officer and a 10 mile run in the rain at night during his NS!?!  :-)  Good point about the joy of teaching - I'm sure you're spot on!  Nothing like gratitude is there!?! :-p

[georgit79]

nothing like it. i'm not a teacher or anything but think they get a very bad press nowadays. the majority of my teachers were brilliant...i'd even go as far as saying some of them were inspiring!

[acw]

Of course part of the problem surely comes from the fact that people can't distinguish between individual performance, and the abilities of teachers generally.  One bad teacher does not mean that they are all rubbish.  Parents all too often take so little interest in their kids education that they haven't a clue what goes on at school.  But when their kid reaches 16, illiterate, inumerate and unemployable, they are very quick to blame the schools. 

I whoelheartedly agree with the suggestion that the Army is no substitute for good parenting courses. 

Perhaps compulsory parenting lessons (an extension to ante-natal classes perhaps) is what is needed!?!  That'll probably be seen as too oppressive and interfering with people's human rights - but it might be more effective than NS. 

[bernardo]

PS - Are you the same bernardo that used to have problems with their english because they are not a native speaker? 

No

Or am I going mad? 

Yes

Cos you're English seems pretty perfect to me!

Yes - I am a native British person

(Obviously if I'm in a muddle then that may seem patronising, but it's not meant to be!)

Maybe it's one of those impostors who infiltrated the site a few months ago! :-)

[acw]

My apologies - I did think the improvement had been might sudden.  Must be an entirely different user.  I'll work out who it is later!  Sorry about that! :-)