Scottish National Party

[anotheoldgit]

Further to the forthcoming Scottish independence referendum got me wondering, how come Mr Salmonds can create a Scottish National Party, and go on to seek independence from the rest of the UK?

Yet if an English politician were to set up an English National Party and seek to make England independent from the rest of the UK, not only would that politician most likely be classed by some as extreme far-right wing, and his party also the same, but they would also most likely be labelled little Englanders, racist and fascist.

Why the difference?

[sp1814]

AOG

Without looking at the last two times you entered this question...didn't someone tell you before that there is already an English National Party?

I'm almost sure you've been supplied with this information before.

So...why have you asked the same question again, if you have already been supplied with the answer that there is a party that fits the bill?

Now I'm going to check the links to see whether my memory has served me well.

[sp1814]

AOG

Yes - thought so.

The English Democrat Party.

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// You asked the question in 2009, then if you look at the second time you asked it was 2011. ///

Looking at 'Related Questions' there are only two similar questions
dated 12:28 Mon 19th Oct 2009 and 11:29 Fri 04th Sep 2009 and if you cared to read through these two similar (not the same) questions, you would notice they are asking different questions.

So perhaps you should first know what you are complaining about before criticising me further?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Yes - thought so.The English Democrat Party. ///

Once again wrong, I was talking about an English National Party, not an English Democratic Party.

Get your facts right, you are beginning to make yourself sound all rather silly.

[sp1814]

AOG

Right...try this...

Put in a search for English National Party into the search box at the top of the AB page.

You will see two previous questions raised by you...with a third one (today's).

In 2009 you asked:

Why can't we have a National Party?

How is it that the Scottish can have a Scottish Nationalist Party, yet we are
accused of belonging to the far right if we want a Nationalist Party?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then in 2011, you asked:

Should we now have an English National Party?

The present political parties do not seem bothered, so in view of the unfairness in the UK, is it not time for a real English National Party to be launched?

Their first priority, to see an English Parliament formed.

No accusations of being a 'Far Right Party' 'Racist Party' 'Fascist Party' or any other offensive link that some would wish to attach to it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now...going back to the English Democrat Party which was suggested to you before - but you dismissed them as being 'far right'.

So - exactly why do you keep asking the same question?

Actually, please carry on. I would rather this question come up every two years than the 'Is the MOBOs racist' one, which now seems to have been laid to rest.

[sp1814]

AOG

Actually - please describe what the policies of this putative party would be?

And then describe how they would be different from the already existent EDP?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// And then describe how they would be different from the already existent EDP? ///

I don't have to describe anything to you, why should I, who the h*ll do you think you are?

After this I refuse any longer to answer to the likes of you, why I ask questions, how many times over the years similar type questions are asked by me, or the subject matter of my questions.

Your closeted insinuations that I am racist, or even homophobic, are also getting to be rather tedious.

[viv38]

I totally agree with you AOG, we would MOST DEFINITELY be classed as racist, little Englanders etc etc if we DARED to try and seek independence. I have no idea why this is, it baffles me too. Perhaps we need to get a backbone and ignore the people who love to criticise us - huh, never gonna happen ! However, for what it's worth, I am proud of my English heritage.

[anotheoldgit]

Good for you viv.

[jim360]

If we tried to seek independence from whom? If from Europe, that's what UKIP is for. If from the UK, well, England is the major party in that Union, so we can't really be said to be dependent on Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

An ENP isn't so much racist, fascist and far-right as just a bit pointless. Plaid Cymru and the SNP can legitmately claim that they are being dictated to by Westminster and England. We can't really claim the same in reverse.

[Old_Geezer]

The government that is in the Palace of Westminster is a UK one not an English one, There is no English national layer of government.

[sp1814]

Oh AOG

I love that moment when you realise that you've lost a debate and then throw a massive tantrum.

No worries old fella, roll on 2015 when you're next due to ask this question yet again.

[sp1814]

AOG

"After this I refuse any longer to answer to the likes of you, why I ask questions, how many times over the years similar type questions are asked by me, or the subject matter of my questions."

Is that a promise?

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// Plaid Cymru and the SNP can legitmately claim that they are being dictated to by Westminster and England. We can't really claim the same in reverse. ///

And don't you think we are being dictated to, and also subsisting these by allowing them their own assembly and parliament, whereas England doesn't have it's very own parliament, the Scottish and Welsh MPs have a voice in solely English affairs.

[sp1814]

viv38

No, you wouldn't - The English Democrats have been around since 2002...and their biggest critics are...oddly...the BNP!

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

You do little to promote the Black Homosexual cause, I am sorry to say, that I have now found that I dislike your attitude sir, and it isn't because of your colour or sexual preference, it's the man himself, but call me a racist homophobic if you must, who cares.

[sp1814]

AOG

"After this I refuse any longer to answer to the likes of you"

Well, that[i lasted long.

Okay - you don't need to answer this because it's not a question. The English Democrats is the perfect party for English nationalists.

You've been told this before.

And I'm glad that you have finally dislike my attitude, because I now feel free to be 100% honest.

I 100% do not believe that you're a racist or indeed homophobic.

I don't believe that in real life, you would treat someone differently because they were different from you.

There's a couple of poster on AB whom I believe to be nasty little racists, but you're not one of them.

What I [i]do] believe is that you feel boxed in, undermined and excluded in your own skin/country/sexuality/gender and you feel the need to constantly shout, "This is so unfair".

Basically, I genuinely believe you have a chip on you should so large, that it could supply all European McDonalds with French fries for the next three years.

That's not a criticism by the way.

[Gromit]

Why do you ignore the English Democrats AOG?

You have been told three times that they are the Party that an English Nationalist like you should be supporting. Yet you don't. Why not?

[jim360]

If you mean the West Lothian question, AOG, I think it's less of an issue to us than it is to Wales and Scotland. On a large number of issues 40 MPs in Wales, let us say, tend not to be enough to swing an issue one way or another (and how often do they vote the same way anyway?). By contrast there are 533 MPs in English Constituencies (about 5/6 of the total Mps), so if ever there were a bill that affected only Wales, every Welsh MP could vote against it but still be massively outvoted, but in the reverse case English MPs could easily stop the Welsh, Scots and Irish imposing their will on us.

It's just not an equal relationship -- and so the need for a purely English Parliament is far less than for a Scottish one. Since when was England fully united on every issue anyway? You might just as well say that the people of Yorkshire are being imposed on by the rest of the country, so maybe we should have a purely Yorkshire Parliament. ('E by gum, tha's no' a bad idea, like!)

[jim360]

Anyway, if Scotland chooses to leave, maybe that will push the Irish and Welsh towards seeking independence, so we may be left with an English Parliament by default in the long run...

Given that Wales in particular, and Ireland and Scotland less so, are still tied to Westminster in large part (devolution isn't really that far advanced for many yet), if the English unilaterally decided to leave the UK I think it would be the equivalent really of kicking the other countries out and leaving them to fend for themselves. Given the lack of infrastructure in Wales in particular (their National Assembly is hardly in a position to run the country) this would be a bit harsh and probably very difficult for the smaller nations to adjust. I don't think they'd thank us, anyway, for forcing independence on them.