So It Was Just Another Dirty Con Trick...
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Retail Apartheid?
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Be interesting to see if the manager and this other staff member are disciplined?
Since this matter has gained huge anti M&S publicity, I wonder if M&S will issue a further statement confirming that an interior investigation has taken place and that the manager and the other staff member have been seriously disciplined?
As would have most likely been the case if it had been a Muslim shopper who had been offended.
Since this matter has gained huge anti M&S publicity, I wonder if M&S will issue a further statement confirming that an interior investigation has taken place and that the manager and the other staff member have been seriously disciplined?
As would have most likely been the case if it had been a Muslim shopper who had been offended.
M&S statement in full
A Marks & Spencer spokesperson said: "Customer service is our number one priority. We regret that in the highlighted case this was not delivered to our usual standards. We would like to apologise for any resulting confusion and reassure our customers that this was an isolated incident.
“M&S offers an inclusive, secular environment for employees and customers, working closely with any employee with religious beliefs of any denomination that restrict specific food or drink handling. We aim to manage this so that all employees work in departments that allow them to offer great customer service at all times. Requests are considered on a case by case basis and may lead to an individual working in a department where conflicts wouldn't arise, such as in clothing or bakery in foods.
“This policy has been successfully implemented over many years and does not compromise our ability to offer the highest level of customer service.”
http://
A Marks & Spencer spokesperson said: "Customer service is our number one priority. We regret that in the highlighted case this was not delivered to our usual standards. We would like to apologise for any resulting confusion and reassure our customers that this was an isolated incident.
“M&S offers an inclusive, secular environment for employees and customers, working closely with any employee with religious beliefs of any denomination that restrict specific food or drink handling. We aim to manage this so that all employees work in departments that allow them to offer great customer service at all times. Requests are considered on a case by case basis and may lead to an individual working in a department where conflicts wouldn't arise, such as in clothing or bakery in foods.
“This policy has been successfully implemented over many years and does not compromise our ability to offer the highest level of customer service.”
http://
Could be too little, too late:
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From the link:
“We regret that in the case highlighted today we were not following our own internal policy.”
Angry customers created a Facebook page, calling on others to boycott the retailer. Some claimed it was creating “division” in communities while others said if this policy was followed they would have to allow Christians who opposed homosexuality to refuse to serve gay customers.
After Marks and Spencer issued its updated statement shoppers posted comments on the Facebook page, saying they had apologised too late.
Michelle Woof wrote: “Marks and spencers have lost my custom this year and forever.ridiculous company run by jobsworths hope the retail sales this xmas at marks and spencers are bad.”
And Alan Skinner said: “We have boycotted M&S today over their policy and did our £400 Christmas food and drink shop at Tesco (instead of M&S) at 06.00 this morning.”
http://
From the link:
“We regret that in the case highlighted today we were not following our own internal policy.”
Angry customers created a Facebook page, calling on others to boycott the retailer. Some claimed it was creating “division” in communities while others said if this policy was followed they would have to allow Christians who opposed homosexuality to refuse to serve gay customers.
After Marks and Spencer issued its updated statement shoppers posted comments on the Facebook page, saying they had apologised too late.
Michelle Woof wrote: “Marks and spencers have lost my custom this year and forever.ridiculous company run by jobsworths hope the retail sales this xmas at marks and spencers are bad.”
And Alan Skinner said: “We have boycotted M&S today over their policy and did our £400 Christmas food and drink shop at Tesco (instead of M&S) at 06.00 this morning.”
jim360
Even in 1939 we were not facing the end of civilisation as we know it (an emotive term of phrase if you like), but it is a damn good job that we took action then, or perhaps I and others would not have had the opportunity to enjoy the experience what England was truly like, even if it was only for a very short period of time.
Even in 1939 we were not facing the end of civilisation as we know it (an emotive term of phrase if you like), but it is a damn good job that we took action then, or perhaps I and others would not have had the opportunity to enjoy the experience what England was truly like, even if it was only for a very short period of time.
/"Nobody should be allowed to refuse to serve somebody, when that is their job." /
And that is M&S policy too. Their goal is not to put staff in that situation.
By the way, Muslim women buy bikinis you know - and lingerie.
There is no problem with the garment- just who sees them in it.
My issue with M&S is what happens if a muslim with these dispensations is moved to warehouse duties; or truck driving, or becomes a Store Manager? Does that constitute handling these products?
and if a muslim
And that is M&S policy too. Their goal is not to put staff in that situation.
By the way, Muslim women buy bikinis you know - and lingerie.
There is no problem with the garment- just who sees them in it.
My issue with M&S is what happens if a muslim with these dispensations is moved to warehouse duties; or truck driving, or becomes a Store Manager? Does that constitute handling these products?
and if a muslim
The implication is that I wouldn't have fought for my country in 1939. How do you know that? How do I know, for that matter? II was never faced with such an awful choice. I'm grateful that in the end people made the right one and stood up for themselves and for their country.
Don't mistake me for a pacifist. I don't like fighting, but only if there is a reasonable alternative. IN 1939 there was not. Today, there certainly is.
Don't mistake me for a pacifist. I don't like fighting, but only if there is a reasonable alternative. IN 1939 there was not. Today, there certainly is.
Gromit
/// Requests are considered on a case by case basis and may lead to an individual working in a department where conflicts wouldn't arise, such as in clothing or bakery in foods. ///
"Case by case basis", so that doesn't rule out 'just catering for Muslim staff' then?
No mention of alcohol I see or even meat.
Why would anyone request that they didn't want to work specifically in the clothes section or even the Bakery?
/// Requests are considered on a case by case basis and may lead to an individual working in a department where conflicts wouldn't arise, such as in clothing or bakery in foods. ///
"Case by case basis", so that doesn't rule out 'just catering for Muslim staff' then?
No mention of alcohol I see or even meat.
Why would anyone request that they didn't want to work specifically in the clothes section or even the Bakery?
/what England was truly like, even if it was only for a very short period of time./
So an aberration then.
A flash in the pan
A temporary state of affairs that the around at the time believed was 'normal'
So not really 'what England was really like' - which in itself is a vague, woolly and highly subjective notion
So an aberration then.
A flash in the pan
A temporary state of affairs that the around at the time believed was 'normal'
So not really 'what England was really like' - which in itself is a vague, woolly and highly subjective notion
/"Case by case basis", so that doesn't rule out 'just catering for Muslim staff' then?/
It doesn't rule out anything
Except large scale, blanket decisions disregarding particular circumstances.
Do you think the likes of aog could conjure up imagined problems with ANY innocuous and reasonable policy?
It doesn't rule out anything
Except large scale, blanket decisions disregarding particular circumstances.
Do you think the likes of aog could conjure up imagined problems with ANY innocuous and reasonable policy?
> Their goal is not to put staff in that situation
They might find it very difficult to do that from now on. Before this whole thing blew up, there may have been several incidents a year where this kind of thing happened. Now there could be many more. M&S have a potential PR meltdown on their hands as people "test the limits" over and over again.
> M&S offers an inclusive, secular environment
I am confused by this. It seems at odds with my understanding of the word "secular" - it seems an odd and contentious word to use in the circumstances.
http://
"the state of being separate from religion, or not being exclusively allied or against any particular religion."
They might find it very difficult to do that from now on. Before this whole thing blew up, there may have been several incidents a year where this kind of thing happened. Now there could be many more. M&S have a potential PR meltdown on their hands as people "test the limits" over and over again.
> M&S offers an inclusive, secular environment
I am confused by this. It seems at odds with my understanding of the word "secular" - it seems an odd and contentious word to use in the circumstances.
http://
"the state of being separate from religion, or not being exclusively allied or against any particular religion."
Gromit
/// Your newspaper has lied to you.
You have got all het up about something that was untrue.
If you take anything from this, you should note that your information source is unreliable. ///
/// Probably best to move on now. ///
*** “We regret that in the case highlighted today we were not following our own internal policy.” ***
Yet another statement made by M&S how many more do they need to make?
Why don't they use your excuse and just say, "it is all not true and that it is just the Daily Mail/Telegraph telling lies".
But then perhaps it would not be wise, since it hasn't worked for you, so why should it work for them?
Better to take your own advice Gromit, stop digging, and it's probably best to move on now.
/// Your newspaper has lied to you.
You have got all het up about something that was untrue.
If you take anything from this, you should note that your information source is unreliable. ///
/// Probably best to move on now. ///
*** “We regret that in the case highlighted today we were not following our own internal policy.” ***
Yet another statement made by M&S how many more do they need to make?
Why don't they use your excuse and just say, "it is all not true and that it is just the Daily Mail/Telegraph telling lies".
But then perhaps it would not be wise, since it hasn't worked for you, so why should it work for them?
Better to take your own advice Gromit, stop digging, and it's probably best to move on now.
/It seems at odds with my understanding of the word "secular" /
Agreed. I accept that if a Muslim member of staff is happily folding jumpers while a Christian colleague is pushing tonnes of bacon and vodka through the till then all will be harmonious.
And M&S claim they have made this work for years
But the secular nature of the environment will be challenged by any beliefs that limit or govern any staff member's behaviour
Agreed. I accept that if a Muslim member of staff is happily folding jumpers while a Christian colleague is pushing tonnes of bacon and vodka through the till then all will be harmonious.
And M&S claim they have made this work for years
But the secular nature of the environment will be challenged by any beliefs that limit or govern any staff member's behaviour
/Why don't they use your excuse and just say, "it is all not true and that it is just the Daily Mail/Telegraph telling lies"./
Because unlike some people (aog) M&S clearly have some regard for accuracy and truthfulness.
Contrary to the sh*t stirring assertions of the Telegraph/Mail; it is not M&S policy for customers to be refused service by staff who have an issue with certain products.
It is their policy for those staff to seek placement in other roles.
On this occasion M&S store management screwed up
Move on
It's another non story for middle-england to get het up about
Because unlike some people (aog) M&S clearly have some regard for accuracy and truthfulness.
Contrary to the sh*t stirring assertions of the Telegraph/Mail; it is not M&S policy for customers to be refused service by staff who have an issue with certain products.
It is their policy for those staff to seek placement in other roles.
On this occasion M&S store management screwed up
Move on
It's another non story for middle-england to get het up about
AOG
The reports and your posts were to the allegation that muslim staff at M&S were allowed by company policy to refuse to serve customers.
That is not true.
The Telegraph, the original source of the story, used a quote from a spokes person, which was clearly used to deceive the readers. The quote was clearly out of context and I highlighted that earlier in the thread.
You can waffle on about pacifists and how idylic the 1950s were all you like, but the simple fact is you were taken in by lies because you wanted to believe it was true.
The reports and your posts were to the allegation that muslim staff at M&S were allowed by company policy to refuse to serve customers.
That is not true.
The Telegraph, the original source of the story, used a quote from a spokes person, which was clearly used to deceive the readers. The quote was clearly out of context and I highlighted that earlier in the thread.
You can waffle on about pacifists and how idylic the 1950s were all you like, but the simple fact is you were taken in by lies because you wanted to believe it was true.
Gromit 12:55 Sun 22nd Dec 2013
// I have my suspicions that this story will prove to be NOT true. I have looked on M&S' website at their staff terms and conditions and there is nothing to confirm this story.
I would not be surprised if the alledged M&S directive (if it exists) may say muslim workers can be exempted from working on the shopfloor handling meat and alcohol, but that would not include serving customers. And would not allow staff to refuse to serve customers. //
Good call me.
// I have my suspicions that this story will prove to be NOT true. I have looked on M&S' website at their staff terms and conditions and there is nothing to confirm this story.
I would not be surprised if the alledged M&S directive (if it exists) may say muslim workers can be exempted from working on the shopfloor handling meat and alcohol, but that would not include serving customers. And would not allow staff to refuse to serve customers. //
Good call me.
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