Should 'she' Be Allowed To Enter?

[joeluke]

Boy living as a girl is finalist in beauty competition

Can any male just put on a dress, call themselves a female and instantly get female rights?

Which public toilets/changing rooms would 'she' use? Surely not the male ones???

...and surely there are 'beauty' competitions for transgenders 'she' could enter

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2563660/Transgender-girl-17-lived-boy-year-ago-receives-death-threats-Miss-England-bid.html

[jim360]

Evidently the organisers thought so. So... why not?

[boxtops]

If it's not against the rules, why not?

[sp1814]

joeluke

"Can any male just put on a dress, call themselves a female and instantly get female rights?"

No...you also have to have your penis removed.

"Which public toilets/changing rooms would 'she' use? Surely not the male ones???"

Are you asking us? Perhaps your best bet is to contact her directly?

"...and surely there are 'beauty' competitions for transgenders 'she' could enter"

Might be - but if she wants to enter Miss England, so what?

[boxtops]

she's clearly not just a bloke dressing up, she's a transgender, it's not a panto.

[joeluke]

sp........'Jordan, who is now saving up for a sex change operation'

Still 100% male as far as I read it

[andrew1707]

And being born a male hardly gives her an advantage in the competition.

[wolf63]

^^^^

I agree with Andrew

[jim360]

There's obviously more to it than that. In the somewhat horrific event that you had an accident with similar results as Jordan's surgery I doubt you'd suddenly identify as female. It's about who and what you want* to be, and in order to be recognised as female by society it should be about who you want* to be all the time. In that sense, then, Jordan has "chosen"* to identify as a woman (though it's not really a choice, of course) and society as a whole has chosen to accept that identification.

*It isn't really a choice, though. It's very difficult to understand, but it's deeper anyway than a conscious choice. Closer to a need, really, than a want.

[sp1814]

joeluke

I see, I was wrong. I was fooled by the label 'transgender' - but the answer to your first question is still pretty much a 'no'.

You would have to be living as woman, rather than simply putting on a frock. If it were as easy as that, then these two would have qualified as women:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/0PlKxiH9K1w/hqdefault.jpg

[joeluke]

sp.....but surely any male could claim they're 'living as a woman'? What criteria constitutes 'living as a woman'? Wearing womens clothes and applying make up? Surely it's a huge grey area?

....and surely a male (regardless of how long he'd been 'living as a woman')would need to have undergone a full sex change before being permitted to use male toilets/changing rooms?

[joeluke]

^ should read 'Female toilets/changing rooms'

[joeluke]

How many females would be happy if they turned around in their gym/swimming pool changing room to be confronted by a meat and two veg???

[jim360]

If someone wears dresses and puts on make-up essentially for the odd evening every month or so, then they can hardly be said to be living as a woman, no. If someone does the same thing regularly, goes out shopping, working, travelling, taking hormonal treatment and changing their official name to a woman's, then they can be said to be living as a woman.

It is perhaps a bit of a grey area, but I suppose there are at least two sides to it. You must see yourself as a woman. Society at large, or at least the people who matter anyway (friends, family and the law) must agree. Some people who dress up every now and again very much think of themselves as women, at least while dressed up. Others don't. Each case is different -- what people want, need and feel like is different. But certainly, once it's a permanent thing, and you are on long-term hormonal treatment, it's more than just a change of clothes.

[joko]

id hardly call being allowed to enter some beauty competition 'getting female rights' ... its just a meaningless competition, and the organisers make the rules, not the law

[Kromovaracun]

I really fail to see how this is your problem, joe.

[Brenden]

I worked with a transgender and he was allowed to use the womens facilities - when I complained I was told I could face suspension so had to use the disabled toilets - whilst still male they should use male facilities.

[B00]

At the risk of sounding bitchy, I don't think she should be attending any contests where physical looks are an attribute, be it as a male or female! She's boss eyed for starters.

[pixie373]

He is a male, but it doesn't really matter in a beauty contest. He wouldn't be allowed to enter the Olympics as a female.