Hillsborough Remembrance In Liverpool 25 Years On

[dave50]

What are people's thoughts on what's going on in Liverpool this afternoon? Am I the only one who thinks it's all a bit over the top? Yes I know it was a terrible thing that happened but I just cant help thinking a lower key approach would have been better.

[anneasquith]

arksided,,,,,,,,,that's really not nice :(

[sir.prize]

gromit - did you notice the picture of the scarves forming the number 96?

They are English professional club scarves. Maybe the England and Scotland football fraternities remember in different ways.

[WELSHYORKIE]

Another piece of insensitivity, Arky - can't you just put your Manure loyalties to on side for once

[Arksided]

... but it's true and you know it.

[Gromit]

Ibrox
// For some years after the 1971 disaster there was only a small plaque at the corner of the ground where it happened. //

// On 2 January 2001, the thirtieth anniversary of the tragedy, a larger monument was unveiled at the corner of the Bill Struth Main Stand and the Copland Road Stand. //

I blame the death of Princes Diana for this change to collective moping and public grieving. There is something rather undignified about it.

[WELSHYORKIE]

^^one side

[WELSHYORKIE]

And the police had no involvement in all of this, I suppose, Arky?

[sir.prize]

gromit - I personally find your comments negative. But will respect them.

[paulllambert]

Yes, over the top sums it up. Also, I have to agree with arksided regarding the tragic event. Nobody will ever convince me that fans weren't at least partly to blame for the deaths.

[jackthehat]

I don't think anyone feels the need to convince you, paulllambert.

Hopefully, this inquest will answer all the questions once and for all......and the fact that it has taken 25 shameful years to get this far is also being marked on this sad anniversary.

[Arksided]

I'm not defending the policing which was poor... let them in so they won't be crushed outside... or let a few go in to avoid it. Its easy to see in Eignsight.

So many things went wrong... but to solely put the blame on the police is numptism.. to hide the facts is shameful.. but it all boils down to the fact liverpool fans fans turned up without tickets. Sadly the ones who lost their lives had tickets.

BTW Baza... Manure... mature.

[Gromit]

// what crowd control plans did the ground owners have? We hear of errors made by police etc but no one has blamed the ground owners for lack of exits. //

The ground had a safety certificate and had held semi final matches for many years previous to the tragedy. There were adequate exits in the ground.

The problem on that day was that the stewarding and policing failed. There were 4 pens at that end, but most of the crowd were crammed into the middle two pens. The outer pens were half empty.

A count from photographs have proved the crowd wasn't greater than it should have been (and ticketless fans did not get into ththat end in any significant numbers).

After the Taylor report, the ground was not modified with more exits, because lack of exits wasn't the problem.

[sp1814]

dave50

1. What are people's thoughts on what's going on in Liverpool this afternoon?

I feel disinterested. Note...not *un*interested.

2. Am I the only one who thinks it's all a bit over the top?

Probably not. But I personally don't think it's over the top. If this is how the community want to mark the 25th anniversary, then so be it. It doesn't really affect me.

3. Yes I know it was a terrible thing that happened but I just cant help thinking a lower key approach would have been better.

I don't see how a lower key approach would have been fitting.

[sir.prize]

paullambert - I am unsure how you can apportion part blame for the deaths with the fans or in fact anyone right now. The Law is having trouble in determining the answer to that one.

[albaqwerty]

a lot of people went to watch a football match, 96 people died.
96, of whom, some who could have been saved. but weren't.

You don't go to a football match and expect to be dead before it's even really got started.

[March-Hare]

Most certainly not OTT ........... a tragedy that never should have happen, and about which many still do not have answers 25 years on. Of course it should be remembered, it's very emotive for those concerned some of whom may get some comfort from the commemorations. If one relative/person is comforted, it is most certainly not OTT. That's just my view. I think if answers had been given and closure gained for all things would be very different.

[baza]

Arksided, why the dig at me when my comment made no reference to excrement in any shape or form.

[paulllambert]

I have seen footage of people climbing the gates at kick off time. If you asked me " did every person in the area behind the goal have a valid ticket FOR THAT SECTION of the ground?" I would hazard a guess at "NO"

[anneasquith]

I think guess work is dangerous.........maybe best wait for the long long awaited enquiry ?

[Gromit]

Paullambert

People did climb the the wall of the turnstiles (not the gates). The gates were opened to eject someone and some fans rushed in, but they were not ticketless, they waved their tickets as they rushed past stewards. But counts of the number of people in that end of the ground show there were not too many there. They were just crammed into two pens not four. Analysis of the tickets taken at the turnstiles also show there was not many forgeries.