Crosswords1 min ago
Stop Press ! Farage Apologises For Racist Remarks !
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Chilldoubt This is the point where I think Mr Farage is again 'playing to the gallery' To whit: "You're comparing a group of men to a nice family, whereas Farage was comparing them to criminal gangs." But Farage didn't mention criminal gangs. He just said a group of Romanians. In my opinion, I don't assume a group of Romanians to be criminals before I meet them....
17:45 Mon 19th May 2014
Iozzy...please...I am blushing !
My nephew is living and working in Sydney and is just about to take citizenship out. He loves it there. He has turned into a real Ocker I'm afraid, but we still love him ! He is always asking his Uncle to go over and visit but its a bit too far for me these days. The thought of sitting in a 'plane for 23 hours doesn't appeal.
Kingsley Amis once said that he wouldn't mind going to China as long as he could be home for Tea.....my sentiments exactly.
My nephew is living and working in Sydney and is just about to take citizenship out. He loves it there. He has turned into a real Ocker I'm afraid, but we still love him ! He is always asking his Uncle to go over and visit but its a bit too far for me these days. The thought of sitting in a 'plane for 23 hours doesn't appeal.
Kingsley Amis once said that he wouldn't mind going to China as long as he could be home for Tea.....my sentiments exactly.
He hasn't apologised. He says he regrets the words he used.
As I said on the other thread, what he said wasn't racist, so he has nothing to apologise for.
I am convinced that the apparent bullying that UKiP and Farage are currently receiving will not go down well with voters. They see an underdog and will vote sympathetically.
Friday will tell whether the media campaign against them has worked or not.
As I said on the other thread, what he said wasn't racist, so he has nothing to apologise for.
I am convinced that the apparent bullying that UKiP and Farage are currently receiving will not go down well with voters. They see an underdog and will vote sympathetically.
Friday will tell whether the media campaign against them has worked or not.
// Mr Farage said he thought people would be concerned if a group of Romanians moved in next door, //
And some would. Farage is not being racist, he is making an observation, and one which a lot of people would agree with.
I am all for politicians being held to account for racist and bigotted remarks, but I do not believe what he said was either of those things. True he is exploiting peoples' fears, but that is what all politicians do all the time.
And some would. Farage is not being racist, he is making an observation, and one which a lot of people would agree with.
I am all for politicians being held to account for racist and bigotted remarks, but I do not believe what he said was either of those things. True he is exploiting peoples' fears, but that is what all politicians do all the time.
I agree that it wasn't racist, however I do think it was a little stupid and slightly bigoted. It is not a comment that makes sense without the assumption that all Romanians are the same. I'm sure plenty of people have had bad experiences with Romanians (or anyone) but to say this means all Romanians are undesirable neighbours is patently stupid.
Yes, Farage is getting somewhat ganged up on by the media, which is probably. This does not make him a more trustworthy character or diminish the stupidity of some of his utterances.
Oh, and it also overlooks the massively complimentary special C4 did about him. And his multiple appearances on QT.
Yes, Farage is getting somewhat ganged up on by the media, which is probably. This does not make him a more trustworthy character or diminish the stupidity of some of his utterances.
Oh, and it also overlooks the massively complimentary special C4 did about him. And his multiple appearances on QT.
Mr Farage has nothing to apologise. Most of the trouble with mainstream politicians is that they are absolutely petrified of making remarks that might upset a few people and spend their lives treading on eggshells. Matters about which many people are concerned thus get brushed under the carpet and we find ourselves as we are today where a party of "loonies and fruitcakes" are the only people to tell it how it is.
Equally interesting ( though not mentioned here) is Mr Farage's "open letter" published in some newspapers today. In it he explains that many Romanians are decent hard working people (though he did not say how many). What he would like to see is an end to the discrimination shown against would be migrants from outside the EU and the restoration of the UK's ability to choose exactly who is allowed to settle here, regardless of their race or place of origin. And of course this perfectly reasonable aim can only be achieved by leaving the EU. He also said how shocked he was during a visit to Romania to see the living conditions and social exclusions in which many of the Roma minority find themselves. He suggested that we should not be in a political union with a country where this is so.
There is no doubt that Romanians are involved in a disproportionately high number of particular types of crime. Go to your local Magistrates' court and look for those appearing having been accused of ATM crime. You will be hard pushed to find a non-Romanian among the defendants. Mr Farage quotes a figure of 92% being the percentage of Romanians involved in this type of crime and I would suggest this is not unadjacent from the truth.
His remarks about Romanians moving in next door are very appropriate. In amongst the hard working people that have arrived from that country there are large numbers of not so hard working souls for whom the UK is an escape from the absolute squalor that they had lived in. Many of them live here in not quite so much squalor (have a walk down Park Lane to see what I mean) but nonetheless not, shall we say, quite up to our standards. If you like the idea of such groups coming to live in a house near you, all well and good. But people in the UK should not be exposed to the risk that in amongst the hard working folk from Romania there is a good chance that some not quite so desirable neighbours may arrive to live next door. There is a big enough risk of that with the people already here without increasing the risk by shipping in people from abroad.
Equally interesting ( though not mentioned here) is Mr Farage's "open letter" published in some newspapers today. In it he explains that many Romanians are decent hard working people (though he did not say how many). What he would like to see is an end to the discrimination shown against would be migrants from outside the EU and the restoration of the UK's ability to choose exactly who is allowed to settle here, regardless of their race or place of origin. And of course this perfectly reasonable aim can only be achieved by leaving the EU. He also said how shocked he was during a visit to Romania to see the living conditions and social exclusions in which many of the Roma minority find themselves. He suggested that we should not be in a political union with a country where this is so.
There is no doubt that Romanians are involved in a disproportionately high number of particular types of crime. Go to your local Magistrates' court and look for those appearing having been accused of ATM crime. You will be hard pushed to find a non-Romanian among the defendants. Mr Farage quotes a figure of 92% being the percentage of Romanians involved in this type of crime and I would suggest this is not unadjacent from the truth.
His remarks about Romanians moving in next door are very appropriate. In amongst the hard working people that have arrived from that country there are large numbers of not so hard working souls for whom the UK is an escape from the absolute squalor that they had lived in. Many of them live here in not quite so much squalor (have a walk down Park Lane to see what I mean) but nonetheless not, shall we say, quite up to our standards. If you like the idea of such groups coming to live in a house near you, all well and good. But people in the UK should not be exposed to the risk that in amongst the hard working folk from Romania there is a good chance that some not quite so desirable neighbours may arrive to live next door. There is a big enough risk of that with the people already here without increasing the risk by shipping in people from abroad.
I must say I do find it strange that, because not all Romanians are the same (which is undoubtably true) that we have to expose ourselves to them all, good and bad. Mr Farage's entire point is that we cannot sort out the good from the bad and allow in only those who we want to settle here. Thus we have to allow them all, criminals as well as down and outs, to live here. Few, if any, countries outside La-La Land that is the EU would allow this ridiculous state of affairs to prevail.
I think we need to treat that 92% figure with a degree of skepticism.
Since reading Nick Davis' 'Flat Earth News', I find it difficult believing everything I read in the papers nowadays.
This is from www.fullfact.org (the original story about 92% of ATM crimes was reported in The Express, and it doesn't appear that the paper did any substantive investigation as to whether or not that figure was truly representative):
"While both parts of the Express’s claim on the prevalance of Romanian crime in the UK have some evidence underpinning them, both need to be carefully understood. A former head of the police unit tasked with tackling ATM crime has indeed estimated that 92% of fraud at cash machines is committed by Romanian nationals (although the Express also threw Bulgarian nationals into the mix), we don’t know the basis for this assertion, nor whether or not it still applies.
Similarly, almost 28,000 Romanians have been arrested in the past five years according to Metropolitan Police figures, but only a small fraction of these were on suspicion of “serious” offences."
Since reading Nick Davis' 'Flat Earth News', I find it difficult believing everything I read in the papers nowadays.
This is from www.fullfact.org (the original story about 92% of ATM crimes was reported in The Express, and it doesn't appear that the paper did any substantive investigation as to whether or not that figure was truly representative):
"While both parts of the Express’s claim on the prevalance of Romanian crime in the UK have some evidence underpinning them, both need to be carefully understood. A former head of the police unit tasked with tackling ATM crime has indeed estimated that 92% of fraud at cash machines is committed by Romanian nationals (although the Express also threw Bulgarian nationals into the mix), we don’t know the basis for this assertion, nor whether or not it still applies.
Similarly, almost 28,000 Romanians have been arrested in the past five years according to Metropolitan Police figures, but only a small fraction of these were on suspicion of “serious” offences."
I'm not sure that I follow the argument that what Mr Farage said *wasn't* racist, but I would be happy to hear an explanation.
Here's a hypothetical situation which I believe mirrors what Mr Farage has said...please let me know whether this is a form of racism.
You live in a nice tree-lined street in Billericay. Your neighbour is selling their house and you find that a black family, called The Campbells (dad works as an administrator in a care home, mum is a nurse, and their two kids are in the sixth form at a local college).
Now, if you pleaded with your neighbour not to sell their house to them, because you'd seen so many stories about black kids and knife crime, would that not count as overt racism?
Isn't Mr Farage saying them exact same thing?
He didn't say that he wouldn't want unemployed, hard drinking, noisy, criminal Romanians...he just said, 'Romanians'.
That sounds like a blanket coverage of everyone from a particular region.
I would have thought that perhaps he should be more sensitive to ignorant assumptions about someone based on their nationality. Not so many years ago I'm sure his German-born wife would have received much the same opposition from those who lost relatives in the Second World War.
Here's a hypothetical situation which I believe mirrors what Mr Farage has said...please let me know whether this is a form of racism.
You live in a nice tree-lined street in Billericay. Your neighbour is selling their house and you find that a black family, called The Campbells (dad works as an administrator in a care home, mum is a nurse, and their two kids are in the sixth form at a local college).
Now, if you pleaded with your neighbour not to sell their house to them, because you'd seen so many stories about black kids and knife crime, would that not count as overt racism?
Isn't Mr Farage saying them exact same thing?
He didn't say that he wouldn't want unemployed, hard drinking, noisy, criminal Romanians...he just said, 'Romanians'.
That sounds like a blanket coverage of everyone from a particular region.
I would have thought that perhaps he should be more sensitive to ignorant assumptions about someone based on their nationality. Not so many years ago I'm sure his German-born wife would have received much the same opposition from those who lost relatives in the Second World War.
Sp
If you replaced Romanians with
Hells Angels
White supremacists
Occulists
Gypsies
Druids
Doleites
Scrotes
And it would still have the same meaning.
Their reputation precedes them and you would not want them as neighbours. Farage may be wrong to label all Romanians as undesirable, but he is tapping into a fairly common prejudice that they are.
If you replaced Romanians with
Hells Angels
White supremacists
Occulists
Gypsies
Druids
Doleites
Scrotes
And it would still have the same meaning.
Their reputation precedes them and you would not want them as neighbours. Farage may be wrong to label all Romanians as undesirable, but he is tapping into a fairly common prejudice that they are.
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