ChatterBank2 mins ago
Time To Stop This Farce?
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10% turnout, obviously no one gives a rats ar5se!
10% turnout, obviously no one gives a rats ar5se!
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We have this person, we are so blessed, not!
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You can't force democracy on people I suppose. But all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their arses and vote, have just disenfranchised themselves from any debate on law and order.
When I worked in BT there was a loud-mouth individual that always "boasted" that he never voted but then spent most of the time between elections whinging and complaining about everything. These people are best ignored.
When I worked in BT there was a loud-mouth individual that always "boasted" that he never voted but then spent most of the time between elections whinging and complaining about everything. These people are best ignored.
"You can't force democracy on people I suppose. But all those people that couldn't be bothered to get off their arses and vote, have just disenfranchised themselves from any debate on law and order."
Not so, I'm afraid, Mikey.
Prior to the introduction of PCCs in late 2012 Police forces in England and Wales (outside London) had a perfectly workable democratic link by having a police committee as one of the functions of each local authority. People elected local councillors and some of them would hold the local police to account via the committee. In London the Commissioner of police is directly accountable to the Home Secretary (another democratically elected person) though for some purposes is also accountable to the London Assembly (effectively London‘s local authority for this purpose).
There was no earthly reason to introduce yet another layer of bureaucracy specifically for police accountability. It is clear that very few people are interested in who holds this post. Some of the work that I do brings me into contact with police officers (both rank and file and more senior ranks) and it is obvious from what they tell me that the PCC is of no help to them at all. So, members of the public are not interested in who does the job and police officers don't have much to say about them either. So what exactly is their point?
Regular AB-ers will know that I have little time for local authorities and would prefer to see them abolished entirely. Police forces across the country can then be accountable directly to the Home Secretary. However, so long as local authorities exist there was no reason to abandon the line of accountability from the police to them and the democratic link was fully provided by the local authorities' police committees.
It's true, you cannot force democracy on people. But quite why a completely unnecessary layer of control was inserted when none was needed, none was asked for, it engenders little enthusiasm among the electorate, it seems to be of little use and is just an expensive career alternative for lifelong busybodies is really the question that needs to be addressed.
Not so, I'm afraid, Mikey.
Prior to the introduction of PCCs in late 2012 Police forces in England and Wales (outside London) had a perfectly workable democratic link by having a police committee as one of the functions of each local authority. People elected local councillors and some of them would hold the local police to account via the committee. In London the Commissioner of police is directly accountable to the Home Secretary (another democratically elected person) though for some purposes is also accountable to the London Assembly (effectively London‘s local authority for this purpose).
There was no earthly reason to introduce yet another layer of bureaucracy specifically for police accountability. It is clear that very few people are interested in who holds this post. Some of the work that I do brings me into contact with police officers (both rank and file and more senior ranks) and it is obvious from what they tell me that the PCC is of no help to them at all. So, members of the public are not interested in who does the job and police officers don't have much to say about them either. So what exactly is their point?
Regular AB-ers will know that I have little time for local authorities and would prefer to see them abolished entirely. Police forces across the country can then be accountable directly to the Home Secretary. However, so long as local authorities exist there was no reason to abandon the line of accountability from the police to them and the democratic link was fully provided by the local authorities' police committees.
It's true, you cannot force democracy on people. But quite why a completely unnecessary layer of control was inserted when none was needed, none was asked for, it engenders little enthusiasm among the electorate, it seems to be of little use and is just an expensive career alternative for lifelong busybodies is really the question that needs to be addressed.
NJ ...am not a big fan of the PCCs either but it was the Tories that introduced them I think. Anyway, they are here to stay, until the next Election at least and people might as well take part in the democratic process.
Its wrong to think that 10,000's stayed away from the Polling booth because they didn't believe in PCCs...they stayed away for exactly the same reason that stay away from Local Elections, which is a vitally important part of our democracy. They just can't be bothered and they are always the first to complain when matters aren't to their liking. Empty vessels make the most noise.
Just hypocrites NJ, nothing less.
Its wrong to think that 10,000's stayed away from the Polling booth because they didn't believe in PCCs...they stayed away for exactly the same reason that stay away from Local Elections, which is a vitally important part of our democracy. They just can't be bothered and they are always the first to complain when matters aren't to their liking. Empty vessels make the most noise.
Just hypocrites NJ, nothing less.
I think most people who stay away from local elections, Mikey, do so because they know that whatever way they vote very little will change. All most people want from their local authority is their bins emptied frequently (without the threat of a fine for putting stuff in the wrong bin) and someone to whom they can report holes in the road and pavement with some confidence that they will be repaired. Alas most authorities (regardless of their political persuasion) fail dismally in these simple tasks but devote huge amounts of time and money to matters which benefit few if any of the people who provide them with funds.
So it is with PCCs. Regardless of who introduced them. nobody asked for them, few people gain any benefit from them, whoever occupies the post the activities and performance of the police are unlikely to alter significantly and they are simply a waste of time and money. Now if, at each election, voters were asked “Do you still want a PCC?” they may get a few more people pitch up because voting “No” really would see a difference.
So it is with PCCs. Regardless of who introduced them. nobody asked for them, few people gain any benefit from them, whoever occupies the post the activities and performance of the police are unlikely to alter significantly and they are simply a waste of time and money. Now if, at each election, voters were asked “Do you still want a PCC?” they may get a few more people pitch up because voting “No” really would see a difference.
I am unable to agree with you concerning local Elections NJ. It most certainly DOES make a difference what Party is voted for, just as it does in General Elections.
I am lucky enough to live in a Tory-free zone, in my Constituency, Local Council and now the Welsh Assembly Government. We were lorded over by various Tory Governor Generals, coming over the Severn Bridge in the ministerial Rover, with the ostrich-plumed hat on the seat beside him, for many years, despite that party never having a popular mandate in Wales.
But the people have now spoken and all that has changed. There will be some people in Wales that would disagree with me on a political level, of course but they have had their chance to alter things, and they have failed. Some of those people who disagree with me, will almost certainly not have bothered to vote, and its these people that I now ignore...they had their chance to take part in the process but they chose to stay at home instead....more fool them. You can't "not take part" and moan about the consequences at the same time, because that is naked hypocrisy. People have every right to be hypocritic of course but they can't expect to have any sympathy.
I am lucky enough to live in a Tory-free zone, in my Constituency, Local Council and now the Welsh Assembly Government. We were lorded over by various Tory Governor Generals, coming over the Severn Bridge in the ministerial Rover, with the ostrich-plumed hat on the seat beside him, for many years, despite that party never having a popular mandate in Wales.
But the people have now spoken and all that has changed. There will be some people in Wales that would disagree with me on a political level, of course but they have had their chance to alter things, and they have failed. Some of those people who disagree with me, will almost certainly not have bothered to vote, and its these people that I now ignore...they had their chance to take part in the process but they chose to stay at home instead....more fool them. You can't "not take part" and moan about the consequences at the same time, because that is naked hypocrisy. People have every right to be hypocritic of course but they can't expect to have any sympathy.
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