Judy Finnigan

[Deskdiary]

When I saw the headlines this morning I had a sharp intake of breath - surely a woman wouldn't 'excuse' rape?

However, having now seen a transcript, what she actually said was (lifted from the BBC website);

"If he does go back, he will have to brave an awful lot of comments," said Finnigan during her debut appearance on the lunchtime programme.

"But, having said that, he has served his time, he's served two years.

"The rape - and I am not, please, by any means minimising any kind of rape - but the rape was not violent, he didn't cause any bodily harm to the person.

"It was unpleasant, in a hotel room I believe, and she [the victim] had far too much to drink.

"That is reprehensible but he has been convicted and he has served his time."

Ultimately she's right, isn't she?

As unpleasant as this man is, he has served his time, and therefore shouldn't he be allowed to continue to pursure his chosen career?

[jackthehat]

No, it's not.

Rape is rape........it can't be anything else.......there are no grey areas.

[Sqad]

ag......yes there are other possibilities, but we are just dealing with rape on this thread.

\\\Are you saying women are more at risk going to a hotel room with a sportsman or just guys in general?\\\

Guys in general or perhaps i should add........any sexual encounter....homo or hetero sexual.

[Peter Pedant]

// Sqad...they could have been going to his room to do a line of coke.//

or to see his engravings...

do people really do this ?
" I went back to his room to do a line of coke, but instead ( or as well as ) he did something else ..."

I should get out more....

[Sqad]

JTH


\\\Rape is rape........it can't be anything else.......there are no grey areas.\\

Nothing for debate there then.

[ummmm]

VHG / But also another footballer who had sex with her at the same time was found not guilty of rape. Surely if one was rape so was the other (or if one was NOT rape then neither were)./

Maybe he didn't penetrate her...

[Svejk]

A 16 year old boy has consensual sex with a 15 year old girl, rape is rape, Andy?

[andy-hughes]

Sqad - "If Mike Tyson invites you to his hotel room at 1.am for a "chat", then you put yourself in a position whereby rape is a possibility and likewise if you go to the hotel room of a footballer, the same situation may present itself.

It shouldn't, but it does and this has been the state of affairs for the past 25-30 years and hasn't changed.

Women know this."

And that sort of head-shaking 'men will be men' attitude is the reason WHY this kind of thing goes on.

Call me old-fashioned, but if a woman accompanies a man to his hotel room for a drink and / or a chat, that does not mean that she is indicating a willingness to partake in sexual activity, or that if she refuses to comply, the man is in any way entitled to avail himself of the situation - because it is a situation in which he may reasonably expect the evening to end in intercourse.

I am baffled that any man in 2014 would think that this is a way to behave, or that because it has 'gone on in the past' - it is still OK now.

How do attitudes and conventions change if people simply shrug their shoulders and say that 'this is the way it has always been'.

We can be grateful in literally thousands of situations that someone somewhere has said - this goes on, but it's not going to go on any longer.

[Prudie]

I can't be the only woman who has had sex unwillingly at some time. Would I class that as rape? Personally No. Would others? Clearly yes. Hence there is a variation in perception of what constitutes as rape and grades of rape. I should have prepared my answer with more thought really as when I heard this on the news this morning I knew it would be a hot topic on AB.

[Peter Pedant]

\\\Rape is rape........it can't be anything else.......there are no grey areas.\\

oh dear the elephant in the room is the huge grey area of 'was there consent or not ?'

which is the grounds for the long debate....

alot about it here
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/soa_2003_and_soa_1956/

[andy-hughes]

VHG - "I am sure there are few men on here who could say they have never encouraged a women to go further sexually than she may want to go."

I may be in a minority here, but I have never ever encouraged a woman to go further sexually than she may want to go.

Call me old fashioned, but the idea of sexual contact with a woman who is fighting, wriggling, crying, screaming, or maybe even just saying No, really doesn't come under my banner of a pleasurable evening out.

[Sqad]

andy

\\\Call me old-fashioned, but if a woman accompanies a man to his hotel room for a drink and / or a chat, that does not mean that she is indicating a willingness to partake in sexual activity,\\\

C'mon andy.......if a woman agrees to go back to a hotel room, then it is likely, very likely that some degree of sex will be entertained.

Call ME old fashioned.

[andy-hughes]

Prudie - "I can't be the only woman who has had sex unwillingly at some time."

No of course not - but that doesn't make it Ok does it?

And that is the crux of my argument.

[ummmm]

I assume his mate testified against....

[ummmm]

Depends what you mean by unwillingly? I've done it when I haven't been in the mood for it....but never been forced to

[Peter Pedant]

// A 16 year old boy has consensual sex with a 15 year old girl, rape is rape, Andy? //

This was covered in the 1956 act - if this is used as a defence then the accused automatically pleads guilty to indecent assault

( specifically the man has to be under 24 )

[Sqad]

Hands up....be honest here:

How many husbands/ partners/ OH.s, whatever you call the now, has continued with sex, including penetration when the woman has made it clear that she "doesn't feel like it?

The vast majority i would guess.......except for andy that is.

[agchristie]

I guess I must have been lucky on several occasions where my judge of character has been good and I was always treated with respect.

[jackthehat]

PP - If consent was given then it is not Rape.

[andy-hughes]

Sqad - "C'mon andy.......if a woman agrees to go back to a hotel room, then it is likely, very likely that some degree of sex will be entertained."

Why?

What is this automatic assumption that a late drink in a room is some kind of code for sex - to be taken by force if not offered by a woman who 'must have known what she was letting herself in for'?

My argument is not that peoplke adjurn to rooms for ex, I am not that naiive.

My argument is that, if a woman decides that she does not after all want sex, it does not entitle the man to carry on as though she is agreeable.

We are not talking a horse auction where the horse refuses to be ridden when it gets home - we are talking men and women, adults above the age of consent, and all I am suggesting is that a wsoman has a right to say no to sex, whatever the circumstances, and that a man has a moral responsibility to abide by her wishes.

This idea that ' we all know what we are here for ... ' does not equate with "Wel, you came back with me, so I am going to have sex with you whether you like it or not..."

I can't see what is so hard to grasp about that.

[ummmm]

And how many women have just carried on hoping to get it over and done with?