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Judy Finnigan
When I saw the headlines this morning I had a sharp intake of breath - surely a woman wouldn't 'excuse' rape?
However, having now seen a transcript, what she actually said was (lifted from the BBC website);
"If he does go back, he will have to brave an awful lot of comments," said Finnigan during her debut appearance on the lunchtime programme.
"But, having said that, he has served his time, he's served two years.
"The rape - and I am not, please, by any means minimising any kind of rape - but the rape was not violent, he didn't cause any bodily harm to the person.
"It was unpleasant, in a hotel room I believe, and she [the victim] had far too much to drink.
"That is reprehensible but he has been convicted and he has served his time."
Ultimately she's right, isn't she?
As unpleasant as this man is, he has served his time, and therefore shouldn't he be allowed to continue to pursure his chosen career?
However, having now seen a transcript, what she actually said was (lifted from the BBC website);
"If he does go back, he will have to brave an awful lot of comments," said Finnigan during her debut appearance on the lunchtime programme.
"But, having said that, he has served his time, he's served two years.
"The rape - and I am not, please, by any means minimising any kind of rape - but the rape was not violent, he didn't cause any bodily harm to the person.
"It was unpleasant, in a hotel room I believe, and she [the victim] had far too much to drink.
"That is reprehensible but he has been convicted and he has served his time."
Ultimately she's right, isn't she?
As unpleasant as this man is, he has served his time, and therefore shouldn't he be allowed to continue to pursure his chosen career?
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Elina "In the same scenario andy, if it was 'your' daughter on the end of the phone telling you the above, what would you say to her?"
Well, allowing for the fact that I am extremely fortunate that my daughters listened to my advice about dodgy situations, so I have never been in that situation - I would say that such behaviour is unwise, and offer to go and pick any of them up from where ever they are.
But if, God forbid, my daughter did not heed my advice, and was raped as a result, I don't think I'd be accusing her of being 'guilty of stupidity' when I next saw her - that doesn't really fit with my concept of being either a parent, or a caring human being.
Well, allowing for the fact that I am extremely fortunate that my daughters listened to my advice about dodgy situations, so I have never been in that situation - I would say that such behaviour is unwise, and offer to go and pick any of them up from where ever they are.
But if, God forbid, my daughter did not heed my advice, and was raped as a result, I don't think I'd be accusing her of being 'guilty of stupidity' when I next saw her - that doesn't really fit with my concept of being either a parent, or a caring human being.
Elina - "andy, go back to my first post. In no way should she have been raped. I'm saying she's guilty of an act of stupidity going back to a mans room."
As long as people like you infer that stupdity gets what it deserves, drunken men will continue to rape drunken women because that's just the way it is.
Good job Rosa Parkes didn't have your attitude.
As long as people like you infer that stupdity gets what it deserves, drunken men will continue to rape drunken women because that's just the way it is.
Good job Rosa Parkes didn't have your attitude.
She created an 'opportunity' for something sexual to happen ... Men & women do not go back to hotel rooms to chat. Rape should not have happened at all. But! .. this female was stupid to create the opportunity for something definitely sexual to happen. You agree this could be construed a 'dodgy situation' andy?
Thank you agchristie - it does appear that the prosecutor in this case agrees with my view.
i notice the the F.A. of Wales chose to remain silent - it would have been appropriate time about the behaviour of young men with too much money and not enough common decency, but it was conspicuous by its silence.
i notice the the F.A. of Wales chose to remain silent - it would have been appropriate time about the behaviour of young men with too much money and not enough common decency, but it was conspicuous by its silence.
Elina - "She created an 'opportunity' for something sexual to happen ... Men & women do not go back to hotel rooms to chat. Rape should not have happened at all. But! .. this female was stupid to create the opportunity for something definitely sexual to happen. You agree this could be construed a 'dodgy situation' andy?"
I have tried and tried to find a way that means that your posts don't mean that this girl got what she dserved because she was implicit in the circumstances - but I can't.
Because this girl went back to a hotel room, she non-verbally signalled her intention to be willing to have sex.
No she didn't - the consent to sex is obvious, but even more obvious is the non-consent to sex.
The girl was too drunk to say no, so it's find for the man to go ahead and have sex anyway, because that is after all what they are there for.
Not it's not.
Let's make sure I have made that clear - NOT IT'S NOT!!!!!!!
I have tried and tried to find a way that means that your posts don't mean that this girl got what she dserved because she was implicit in the circumstances - but I can't.
Because this girl went back to a hotel room, she non-verbally signalled her intention to be willing to have sex.
No she didn't - the consent to sex is obvious, but even more obvious is the non-consent to sex.
The girl was too drunk to say no, so it's find for the man to go ahead and have sex anyway, because that is after all what they are there for.
Not it's not.
Let's make sure I have made that clear - NOT IT'S NOT!!!!!!!
Here's a thought that might put this into some sort of context, and I'm directing this to anyone who thinks that the amount of booze the victim of rape has consumed should be a contributory factor.
Say if it were a 19 year old lad who went out with a load of mates, got roaring drunk, fell asleep in his mate's spare room and was *** raped during the night.
How much would his booze consumption matter?
Say if it were a 19 year old lad who went out with a load of mates, got roaring drunk, fell asleep in his mate's spare room and was *** raped during the night.
How much would his booze consumption matter?
Eons ago when I was very young I had a crush on an older man (I was 18 he was around 28) We went out for a date and I got very very drunk. I literally threw myself at him and would have been up for anything. He was a gentleman, took me back to my dorm and made sure I got through the door safely. There is NO EXCUSE under the sun for a man to have sex with a woman without her consent.
Elina - "andy, I agree, it's not o.k to force sex on anyone full stop. I still say she is guilty of stupidity."
And i still say that rape is a crime, but stupidity isn't. I hope you don't need me to explain the fundamental difference between the stupdity of drinking too much, and the intentional sexual assault of a woman, and the fact that one is regretrable behaviour, and the other is an imprisonable offence.
" andy, what do you consider 'unwise' about that scenario I gave?"
Nothing.
Why? because no man should enterain the thought that a woman crossing the threshold of his hotel room equates to a right to rape her.
It is absolutely no use to go banging on about 'these things happen ...' or 'she should have known better ...'
This is 2014, we should have proper respect for ourselves and each other, than to simply shrug our shoulders and say that it's just 'the way it is' - much less spend hours debating that defence on a website like this.
If 'things are the way they are ...' then nothing is ever going to change.
My reference to Rosa Parkes was a valid one.
The 'way things were ...' was for black people too give up their seats in the front of buses to white people.
Who on here would say that was right, just because it was 'the way things were...'?
If no-one starts to make a stand on somerthing, things will stay 'the way they are ...' for ever, and that includes women being raped in hotel rooms.
So let's make a start right here, right now.
Let's not say she was stupid, or foolish, or expected sex, or it goes on, or that's men, or it's always been like this ...
Let's say, this woman was violated, and a man has been to prison for it.
There are no mitigating circusmatnces. None. At All.
And i still say that rape is a crime, but stupidity isn't. I hope you don't need me to explain the fundamental difference between the stupdity of drinking too much, and the intentional sexual assault of a woman, and the fact that one is regretrable behaviour, and the other is an imprisonable offence.
" andy, what do you consider 'unwise' about that scenario I gave?"
Nothing.
Why? because no man should enterain the thought that a woman crossing the threshold of his hotel room equates to a right to rape her.
It is absolutely no use to go banging on about 'these things happen ...' or 'she should have known better ...'
This is 2014, we should have proper respect for ourselves and each other, than to simply shrug our shoulders and say that it's just 'the way it is' - much less spend hours debating that defence on a website like this.
If 'things are the way they are ...' then nothing is ever going to change.
My reference to Rosa Parkes was a valid one.
The 'way things were ...' was for black people too give up their seats in the front of buses to white people.
Who on here would say that was right, just because it was 'the way things were...'?
If no-one starts to make a stand on somerthing, things will stay 'the way they are ...' for ever, and that includes women being raped in hotel rooms.
So let's make a start right here, right now.
Let's not say she was stupid, or foolish, or expected sex, or it goes on, or that's men, or it's always been like this ...
Let's say, this woman was violated, and a man has been to prison for it.
There are no mitigating circusmatnces. None. At All.
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