Judy Finnigan

[Deskdiary]

When I saw the headlines this morning I had a sharp intake of breath - surely a woman wouldn't 'excuse' rape?

However, having now seen a transcript, what she actually said was (lifted from the BBC website);

"If he does go back, he will have to brave an awful lot of comments," said Finnigan during her debut appearance on the lunchtime programme.

"But, having said that, he has served his time, he's served two years.

"The rape - and I am not, please, by any means minimising any kind of rape - but the rape was not violent, he didn't cause any bodily harm to the person.

"It was unpleasant, in a hotel room I believe, and she [the victim] had far too much to drink.

"That is reprehensible but he has been convicted and he has served his time."

Ultimately she's right, isn't she?

As unpleasant as this man is, he has served his time, and therefore shouldn't he be allowed to continue to pursure his chosen career?

[ummmm]

This Lady didn't give consent and she doesn't remember it happening.

[Svejk]

Taken to its conclusion, then, any woman who, on reflection, perceives they've been raped should be adjudged to have been? We'd better release all the women jailed for perverting the course of justice and re-jail all the men they 'wrongly' accused.

[Sqad]

andy.....

\\\\My argument is that, if a woman decides that she does not after all want sex, it does not entitle the man to carry on as though she is agreeable. \\\

Yes! yes!.....that is true.......but the situation is quite different and brings us into the "grey area.

Very rarely does the situation arise whereby she says "Let's get down to it" or she says "No i don't feel like having it"....the most common situation is in between ( the grey area) and in my limited experience, it is this grey area which prevails and is causing the problem.

[ummmm]

Well his GF is standing by him...

[andy-hughes]

Sqad - "Very rarely does the situation arise whereby she says "Let's get down to it" or she says "No i don't feel like having it"....the most common situation is in between ( the grey area) and in my limited experience, it is this grey area which prevails and is causing the problem."

What's 'grey' about the word NO?

[naomi24]

//she doesn't remember it happening. //

In that case, she doesn't know whether she said 'yes' or 'no'. This is a very grey area indeed.

[andy-hughes]

Doesn't anyone think there is something fundamentally wrong with a man who has sex with an unconcious woman?

[naomi24]

Maybe she wasn't unconscious - just too drunk to remember what she did.

[Sqad]

andy........there is nothing grey about the word "NO"

"Very rarely does the situation arise"

But as i said above......that situation rarely arises and hence leads into the "grey areas" that i keep banging on about.

In all fairness to your posts on this thread, my morals have been described as " like an Alley Cat", so i would take my opinion with that in mind.

[andy-hughes]

naomi24 - "Maybe she wasn't unconscious - just too drunk to remember what she did."

Doesn't anyone think there is something fundamentally wrong with a man who has sex with a woman who is beyond knowing what she is saying yes or no to?

[gness]

Well there's me, Andy...

This may have been said in the many replies.......if rape in a luxury hotel room whilst drunk is "preferable" to rape in a grubby back street.....but leads to HIV.....would it still be preferable and still be considered just "unpleasant"?

[andy-hughes]

Deskdiary - my apologies for the sidetracking of your original question - should this man be allowed to continue his career?

In my view, he should be allowed to continue his career, although circumstances appear to rule out a return to his former club.

Our justice system works on the basis of crime and punishment, and there is no apparent bar to a footballer resuming his playing career after a prison sentence, however unpleasant a person he may appear to be.

[andy-hughes]

gness - "Well there's me, Andy...

This may have been said in the many replies.......if rape in a luxury hotel room whilst drunk is "preferable" to rape in a grubby back street.....but leads to HIV.....would it still be preferable and still be considered just "unpleasant"?"

Thank you for your support - much appreciated since I seem to be ploughing something of an uphill furrow based on the responses here.

As you confirm, the circomstances don't really alter the impact do they - putting a cushion over the end of a gun doesn't really add to the comfort of the bullet!!!

[naomi24]

Yes - if he's stone cold sober, but perhaps he wasn't. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they were both drunk and got carried away. It happens.

[ummmm]

Naomi....his friend was there.

[ummmm]

He was cleared of any wrong doing...

[naomi24]

Oh, was he? And he said the girl was raped? I wonder why he didn't stop it? (I haven't read anything about this case).

[andy-hughes]

naomi24 - "Yes - if he's stone cold sober, but perhaps he wasn't. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they were both drunk and got carried away. It happens."

I find it hard to reconcile the efforts that are being put into defending the actions of this man - who has, lest we forget, been tried and convicted of the crime of rape.

At every twist and turn, somone seems to come up with a point that mitigates his behaviour - and i find that scarecely believeable.

No-one has to take my view on what has happened - a trial has been held, evidence has been heard, and this man has been convicted.

Can we get off the merrygoround of finding situations and circumstances that make this 'something that happens' - when clearly that sort of complacency allows such crimes to be perpetuated in the first place.

In a civilised society, no man is drunk enough to force himself on a woman who is incapable of resisting, or maybe even verbally refusing - and for that to be seen in any way as accetpable.

You can dress up the circumstances any way you wish - at the very least, this man has forced himself on a woman too intoxocated to have an opinion about it.

It comes down to that, it was wrong, he has been to prison for it, and it remains wrong now.

[ummmm]

I don't. Evan's still denying it.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, If he’s been to prison for it, then Judy is right. He’s paid the penalty (no pun intended) and he should be allowed to resume his life – but perhaps you’d rather he be punished ad infinitum?