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If We Are To Banish Such Words Completely, Then Everyone Should Be Condemned For Using Them, Agreed?
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/// many gays call each other ‘f****ts’, why supporters of an English football team called Tottenham Hotspur, which has a large Jewish following, call each other ‘Y*ds’, and why some ardent feminists like to use the word ‘C**t’ with impunity. ///
/// many gays call each other ‘f****ts’, why supporters of an English football team called Tottenham Hotspur, which has a large Jewish following, call each other ‘Y*ds’, and why some ardent feminists like to use the word ‘C**t’ with impunity. ///
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Don;t need to read the article. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. There is not such thing as, "Our word, only we can use it". It's a discussion that has been had many times in the past. Either it is too offensive to use or it is not. In reality, of course, words are simply words, it is how they are used that counts. But that is harder to legislate for.
I fully understand the notion of sections of society taking an epiteht and 're-owning' it because of a perceived sense of empowerment achieved by doing so.
What I don't understamd is why anyone would want to own such ugly and unpleasant words.
By definition, any insult is going to sound ugly, not matter who'se mouth it is in, or what the reason is for spitting it out.
I would prefer that we move away from use of such words altogether, because they are ugley, nasty, belitting degrading adjectives, and as such, they should have no place in modern language.
We should be encouraging our growing generations to repsect themselves, and each other, and not tobe perpetuating nastiness from previous generations in some sort of misguided notion of 'respect'.
Nasty langauge is just, and only that - nasty.
We should all be working towards the obliteration of such terms, for the good of everyone, not just minority groups with an overdeveloped sense of self-rightiousness.
What I don't understamd is why anyone would want to own such ugly and unpleasant words.
By definition, any insult is going to sound ugly, not matter who'se mouth it is in, or what the reason is for spitting it out.
I would prefer that we move away from use of such words altogether, because they are ugley, nasty, belitting degrading adjectives, and as such, they should have no place in modern language.
We should be encouraging our growing generations to repsect themselves, and each other, and not tobe perpetuating nastiness from previous generations in some sort of misguided notion of 'respect'.
Nasty langauge is just, and only that - nasty.
We should all be working towards the obliteration of such terms, for the good of everyone, not just minority groups with an overdeveloped sense of self-rightiousness.
I agree.
But it won't happen.
Using it in an 'Ironic' way just let's people who use it in an abusive way get away with it.
Apparantently it will be transmitted electronically over half a million times in a day in the US. Yet, I assume the AB filter will not allow ***.
Of course, the use of the word in the US is different from here. If the word was used in the UK the meaning in most cases would be abusive. Which is why we find the rappers and the black yoof using it, a bit perplexing. Not sure they know they are being ironic, so the ironic excuse sort of falls down.
But it won't happen.
Using it in an 'Ironic' way just let's people who use it in an abusive way get away with it.
Apparantently it will be transmitted electronically over half a million times in a day in the US. Yet, I assume the AB filter will not allow ***.
Of course, the use of the word in the US is different from here. If the word was used in the UK the meaning in most cases would be abusive. Which is why we find the rappers and the black yoof using it, a bit perplexing. Not sure they know they are being ironic, so the ironic excuse sort of falls down.
ludwig - "// In doing so they lessen its power as an insult. //
That's not what happens sandy. It's every bit as insulting, depending on who's saying it. If you don't believe me, try it out on someone in the street and see if it's lost any of it's power."
I think what Sandy means is the times when young black men refer to each other a N**a, as one would say 'Mate', it is a term of affection, deliberatly inverted from the offensive use of the word.
That is a far cry from calling a black stranger by that word in the street, that would not end well!
That's not what happens sandy. It's every bit as insulting, depending on who's saying it. If you don't believe me, try it out on someone in the street and see if it's lost any of it's power."
I think what Sandy means is the times when young black men refer to each other a N**a, as one would say 'Mate', it is a term of affection, deliberatly inverted from the offensive use of the word.
That is a far cry from calling a black stranger by that word in the street, that would not end well!
No I'm with Sandy on this, people shouldn't quake and quail in the shadow of a word, they should take it by the scruff of the neck and batter the hell out of it by use until it has lost it's power. Might take a long time. black people are doing it with N***** and so are the Asians with their use of P***. It needs doing. Likewise my father often goes by the pseudonym 'Taig' when he writes or on other boards.
Take these words back and don't give them or the idiots who use them insultingly any more power than they think they already have.
Take these words back and don't give them or the idiots who use them insultingly any more power than they think they already have.
andy-hughes
/// I think what Sandy means is the times when young black men refer to each other a N**a, as one would say 'Mate', it is a term of affection, deliberatly inverted from the offensive use of the word. ///
/// That is a far cry from calling a black stranger by that word in the street, that would not end well! ///
In that case Andy the 'N' word would become a term of affection, if a white person was to greet his black mate with the word?
/// I think what Sandy means is the times when young black men refer to each other a N**a, as one would say 'Mate', it is a term of affection, deliberatly inverted from the offensive use of the word. ///
/// That is a far cry from calling a black stranger by that word in the street, that would not end well! ///
In that case Andy the 'N' word would become a term of affection, if a white person was to greet his black mate with the word?
AOG - "/// I think what Sandy means is the times when young black men refer to each other a N**a, as one would say 'Mate', it is a term of affection, deliberatly inverted from the offensive use of the word. ///
/// That is a far cry from calling a black stranger by that word in the street, that would not end well! ///
In that case Andy the 'N' word would become a term of affection, if a white person was to greet his black mate with the word?"
I would not for one moment claim to be any kind of expert on youth culture, but I was having a discussion with a friend who is black, about the use of this word. He advised me that among a group of black and white friends, the word was used regularly among the young black men to each other, but when one of the white men addressed a black friend using the word, he was punched in the face for it.
That would imply that it is not OK between white and black people - black people only seems to be the rule here.
/// That is a far cry from calling a black stranger by that word in the street, that would not end well! ///
In that case Andy the 'N' word would become a term of affection, if a white person was to greet his black mate with the word?"
I would not for one moment claim to be any kind of expert on youth culture, but I was having a discussion with a friend who is black, about the use of this word. He advised me that among a group of black and white friends, the word was used regularly among the young black men to each other, but when one of the white men addressed a black friend using the word, he was punched in the face for it.
That would imply that it is not OK between white and black people - black people only seems to be the rule here.
kvalidir - "No I'm with Sandy on this, people shouldn't quake and quail in the shadow of a word, they should take it by the scruff of the neck and batter the hell out of it by use until it has lost it's power. Might take a long time. black people are doing it with N***** and so are the Asians with their use of P***. It needs doing. Likewise my father often goes by the pseudonym 'Taig' when he writes or on other boards.
Take these words back and don't give them or the idiots who use them insultingly any more power than they think they already have."
i refer to my earlier post - these words are ugly no matter who says them, or why.
Should we not let them die out of use naturally because we are trying to be nice to each other, instead of trying to empower one group with the use of the insults of another.
Take these words back and don't give them or the idiots who use them insultingly any more power than they think they already have."
i refer to my earlier post - these words are ugly no matter who says them, or why.
Should we not let them die out of use naturally because we are trying to be nice to each other, instead of trying to empower one group with the use of the insults of another.
Any group adopting a derogatory name for themselves as their own takes away a great deal of the power the word had in the first place. Insults are subjective until someone passes a Law stating they are 'offensive'. No one can legislate on what is offensive or what is not as language constantly changes and what was offensive in 1950 may not be now, and visa versa
I think the problem with these words is that there is a difference between the utterance of the word, and it being heard by others.
I am old enough to remember when the F word was first used on TV by Kenneth Tynan in 1965. Now its widely used at pretty well anytime after the watershed. I can also remember when Alf Garnet used the B word...you know the one.....used when one is describing what happens when you cut yourself. My Dad was outraged that anybody could say such a thing on prime time telly ! Now it wouldn't raise an eyebrow, even when at tea with the Vicar.
For people of my generation, the N word sounds just like it always did...as an ignorant and lazy way to describe Afro-Americans. I suppose it comes from the word ***, which itself comes from the Latin word niger. I am not sure why young American black people see it as OK now, but I would put that down to a generational difference.
The word that I am most concerned with, here in Britain, is the P word. It is still widely used by the usual suspects, such as the violent Far Right elements that we see on our street, like the EDL. It is even being used by our racists against Hindu people ! But how long is it going to be before our own home-grown Asian citizens start to use it amongst themselves, in the same way that the N word is being used in popular culture by our black Colonial cousins.
I am old enough to remember when the F word was first used on TV by Kenneth Tynan in 1965. Now its widely used at pretty well anytime after the watershed. I can also remember when Alf Garnet used the B word...you know the one.....used when one is describing what happens when you cut yourself. My Dad was outraged that anybody could say such a thing on prime time telly ! Now it wouldn't raise an eyebrow, even when at tea with the Vicar.
For people of my generation, the N word sounds just like it always did...as an ignorant and lazy way to describe Afro-Americans. I suppose it comes from the word ***, which itself comes from the Latin word niger. I am not sure why young American black people see it as OK now, but I would put that down to a generational difference.
The word that I am most concerned with, here in Britain, is the P word. It is still widely used by the usual suspects, such as the violent Far Right elements that we see on our street, like the EDL. It is even being used by our racists against Hindu people ! But how long is it going to be before our own home-grown Asian citizens start to use it amongst themselves, in the same way that the N word is being used in popular culture by our black Colonial cousins.
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