Why The Need To Wash Their Dirty Linen In Public?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2867736/Shaming-West-Devastating-report-reveals-horrific-extent-CIA-torture-covers-Britain-s-role.html

Pretty damming stuff, but who can gain from making this report public, except our enemies?

[jim360]

"I simply cannot believe it didn't work in 100% of cases."

By this do you mean you "can't believe that it never worked", or that you "believe that it always worked"?

[ChillDoubt]

The former, jim, because it obviously did in some cases as was borne out.

[jim360]

Thanks -- I wasn't quite sure what you meant, although I assumed it was the former.

In which case I'd say I wouldn't argue with that, but the results are unreliable -- someone broken via torture is going to tell you what you want to hear, whether or not that's actually the truth. Obviously sometimes it will be the truth, but there is also the high risk of torturing someone who is innocent (or at least ignorant of the information you wanted), and thus getting wrong information.

[ChillDoubt]

Yep, it's a dirty business and sometimes both sides get messy, some just stay a bit cleaner than others.
When we start beheading terrorists I'll be worried. Until then....

[BlackadderV]

When we start beheading terrorists I , for one, will stop worrying.

[DTCwordfan]

No I wouldn't use waterboarding, sleep deprivation or noise to torture them, rusty scalpels, the Spanish donkey and the Pear would be my instruments of choice.

[vetuste_ennemi]

The moral argument is not clear cut and doesn't allow easy answers. Any one of us(I suggest) can devise scenarios in which WE would not only justify the use of torture, but consider it immoral to withhold its use. It's part of the messy world we live in that that there are few (perhaps no) simple and unambiguous moral principles that can be applied consistently in all circumstances.

[RandyMarsh]

Dangerous for us to give any government our approval to torture people. Sits uneasy with me, the fact that no information was gleamed means that the end did not justify the means.

[Peter Pedant]

// I wouldn't expect someone who hasn't served to have the faintest idea about what it costs to preserve it.//

I'm afraid I would expect someone who has served to know that torture doesnt work
I CERTAINLY would expect them to know tat the Brits during the war did NOT torture Germans or Japanese for this simple reason

anyone who thinks that beating suspects does work should be sentenced to see 'In the Name of the Father' continuously until they repent

- also has the good scene where the evil senior civil servant whispers - ( cos he knows they are innocent, see ? ) do we really have to go thro all this again ?

Now Chilldo may have heard of the massacre at Wormhout - 1940 Brits were shot by members of Adolf Hitler Liebstandart regiment and none were hanged as it was successfully pleaded all the naughty boys had died in Russia ( Stalingrad ) however they did it again at Malmedy 1944.
and THESE were convicted - There are some AWFUL films about it called Saints and SInners - but there convictions were overturned - oops - because they successfully pleaded that their American captors had abused them.....mock executions sleep deprivation nothing serious

History repeats itself....

[Peter Pedant]

The moral argument is very clear cut
it doesnt work and coarsens the perpetrator

[Peter Pedant]

Report is here by the way

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

makes depressing reading

[Gromit]

How does it help our enemies?

The report only confirms what everyone (including our enemies) already knew.

It's bad for the world image of the US (and us by association). But no one is surprised that they used torture, least of all the people they were torturing.

How does it change anything?

[mikey4444]

PP...( 19:18) the voice of reason and common sense.

[ChillDoubt]

Another incoherent rant I'm still trying to decipher.
In the meantime, get used to the idea that it's all a very dirty business:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223831/How-Britain-tortured-Nazi-PoWs-The-horrifying-interrogation-methods-belie-proud-boast-fought-clean-war.html