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Should The Video Of The Jordanian Pilot Be Watched
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There's a lot of personal 'let's get on our high chairs' over this going on.
Look, fair enough if you don't want to watch it and that's more than understandable and, to me, if you do, so be it but just be aware on how graphic it is. I have seen a couple of photos.
The capability to watch this is not sick - it depends on your exposure to death in life, for example, I assume that Sqad has seen plenty and is well conditioned. Others here too - I have seen some gruesome deaths in my time - blood goes along way when some one is hit in the head by a swinging pipe on an oil rig (he has consumed a bottle of gin, by the way) - so does the brain when you're runover by a bus when you are on a bike in China...... Personally, I have no want to watch the video, the photos are bad enough.
What I want to know is what is going to be done to eliminate ISIL....either by the West, the GCC or both. I don't see how executing two folk in Jordan is going to solve the issue other than the cry for blood from the baying Jordani masses. Far better if they had released the ***, having tagged her with location and listening devices (knocking her out for that and possibly for the exchange) and then 'followed' her movements and who she talked to......she would probably have been executed by ISIL anyway for failing her mission but, in doing so, could have given away some clues of their whereabouts.
Look, fair enough if you don't want to watch it and that's more than understandable and, to me, if you do, so be it but just be aware on how graphic it is. I have seen a couple of photos.
The capability to watch this is not sick - it depends on your exposure to death in life, for example, I assume that Sqad has seen plenty and is well conditioned. Others here too - I have seen some gruesome deaths in my time - blood goes along way when some one is hit in the head by a swinging pipe on an oil rig (he has consumed a bottle of gin, by the way) - so does the brain when you're runover by a bus when you are on a bike in China...... Personally, I have no want to watch the video, the photos are bad enough.
What I want to know is what is going to be done to eliminate ISIL....either by the West, the GCC or both. I don't see how executing two folk in Jordan is going to solve the issue other than the cry for blood from the baying Jordani masses. Far better if they had released the ***, having tagged her with location and listening devices (knocking her out for that and possibly for the exchange) and then 'followed' her movements and who she talked to......she would probably have been executed by ISIL anyway for failing her mission but, in doing so, could have given away some clues of their whereabouts.
AOG - "This poor airman's father was only recently appealing to his son's captures, informing them that he was a Muslim the same as them.
Oh so it would have been understandable to him if he had not been a Muslim then?"
Your conclusion is completely erroneous AOG.
This poor man is pleading for the life of his child - he would have said anything to try and save him, including appealing to his captors on the basis of a shared faith (at least in theory, since IS and Islam have nothing in common apart from the need for IS to hide behind the faith to justify their psychotic behaviour).
I do not think he would countenance the murder of anyone, Muslim or not - I cannot understand why you would think that he would.
Oh so it would have been understandable to him if he had not been a Muslim then?"
Your conclusion is completely erroneous AOG.
This poor man is pleading for the life of his child - he would have said anything to try and save him, including appealing to his captors on the basis of a shared faith (at least in theory, since IS and Islam have nothing in common apart from the need for IS to hide behind the faith to justify their psychotic behaviour).
I do not think he would countenance the murder of anyone, Muslim or not - I cannot understand why you would think that he would.
DT - "The capability to watch this is not sick - it depends on your exposure to death in life, for example, I assume that Sqad has seen plenty and is well conditioned. Others here too ..."
I am unsure that exposure to death by accident inures you to the vision of murder on a video - or indeed why you imagine that it would.
I am unsure that exposure to death by accident inures you to the vision of murder on a video - or indeed why you imagine that it would.
I guess that one of the outputs of all of this brouhaha is that it’s rather tempting to conclude that the murder represents a big miscalculation by ISIS and that the pilot’s execution will mark a significant turn in the battle against the terrorist quasi-state.
Jordan’s powerful reaction and possible even over-reaction–including promises of extensive retaliation–is in many respects more meaningful than similar threats from us in the West.
I've said all along that ISIS is a regional problem, but then when it involves Brits and Americans or Japanese, there's a risk of global escalation - which may that is what ISIL want, the publicitiy card, as mentioned already.
That's why my view is that regional ownership in the fight is critical to limiting its expansion - and that should be Iran and Saudi. And this fight needs to be joined by both (the Iranians and the Wahibis-Sunnites) in an effort to delegitimize the extremists and expose the group for what it is: a corruption and perversion of Islam.
The key question now is what other Arab and Muslim states say and do in the next few days. And AOG, there has already been extensive denouncement of what has happened in the Gulf –and whether Lt. Kasasbeh’s murder inspires them into a more sustained effort in terms of military participation - or, alternatively through educational and political efforts against ISIS and radical Islam.
It’s fine for the White House to convene a summit on countering violence and extremism and for us to participate in that but really there needs to be a GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) or Muslim Confederation equivalent of this as every Arab and Muslim country needs to do the same.
There's also the question of the other splinter groups in Nigeria, Libya, Somalia and Algeria to think about as well, all potentially dangerous, not forgetting Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
Jordan’s powerful reaction and possible even over-reaction–including promises of extensive retaliation–is in many respects more meaningful than similar threats from us in the West.
I've said all along that ISIS is a regional problem, but then when it involves Brits and Americans or Japanese, there's a risk of global escalation - which may that is what ISIL want, the publicitiy card, as mentioned already.
That's why my view is that regional ownership in the fight is critical to limiting its expansion - and that should be Iran and Saudi. And this fight needs to be joined by both (the Iranians and the Wahibis-Sunnites) in an effort to delegitimize the extremists and expose the group for what it is: a corruption and perversion of Islam.
The key question now is what other Arab and Muslim states say and do in the next few days. And AOG, there has already been extensive denouncement of what has happened in the Gulf –and whether Lt. Kasasbeh’s murder inspires them into a more sustained effort in terms of military participation - or, alternatively through educational and political efforts against ISIS and radical Islam.
It’s fine for the White House to convene a summit on countering violence and extremism and for us to participate in that but really there needs to be a GCC (Gulf Cooperation Council) or Muslim Confederation equivalent of this as every Arab and Muslim country needs to do the same.
There's also the question of the other splinter groups in Nigeria, Libya, Somalia and Algeria to think about as well, all potentially dangerous, not forgetting Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
237SJ, //I would like to know how the average person who is sitting at home is going to be galvanised into action by seeing the pilot being burned to death.//
Images like this don’t necessarily galvanise people into action; rather they illustrate the appalling barbarity of IS, thus engendering disgust and hence opposition to what may previously have just been seen by many as something happening in foreign lands that isn’t our problem.
andy-hughes, // IS and Islam have nothing in common apart from the need for IS to hide behind the faith to justify their psychotic behaviour//
Jeepers! IS and Islam have everything in common! IS is the epitome of fundamentalist Islam - it adheres rigidly to the 'rule book' - but trying to explain that to you earlier was clearly a wasted effort. You appear to be as determined to cling to your erroneous notions as they are to cling to theirs.
Images like this don’t necessarily galvanise people into action; rather they illustrate the appalling barbarity of IS, thus engendering disgust and hence opposition to what may previously have just been seen by many as something happening in foreign lands that isn’t our problem.
andy-hughes, // IS and Islam have nothing in common apart from the need for IS to hide behind the faith to justify their psychotic behaviour//
Jeepers! IS and Islam have everything in common! IS is the epitome of fundamentalist Islam - it adheres rigidly to the 'rule book' - but trying to explain that to you earlier was clearly a wasted effort. You appear to be as determined to cling to your erroneous notions as they are to cling to theirs.
A brief comment in the Times suggests that ISIS have gone to far even for Al-Qaeda, on the grounds that "execution by fire" was un-Islamic. So I don't know if it's really true that ISIS is exactly what Islam is meant to be at its purest. At any rate, if even other terrorist Muslims object, there is some cause to argue that ISIS is not the same as Islam.
therein lies the issue - IS (thinks) that it is the epitome of fundamentalist Islam - it adheres rigidly to the 'rule book' .....the average, decent Muslim thinks that it is not Islam. What do the royal wallahs of the Gulf think - and throw in an Ayatollah or two? They're the ones that need to come off the block.
Naomi - "Jeepers! IS and Islam have everything in common! IS is the epitome of fundamentalist Islam - it adheres rigidly to the 'rule book' ...
That is where our view differs.
When I speak to Muslim friends, they tell me that fundamentalism is twisting the spirit and ethos of Islam.
To say that IS represents Islam is parallel to saying that Westboro Baptist Church represents Christianity. They both say they do ...
That is where our view differs.
When I speak to Muslim friends, they tell me that fundamentalism is twisting the spirit and ethos of Islam.
To say that IS represents Islam is parallel to saying that Westboro Baptist Church represents Christianity. They both say they do ...
Sticks hand up ans stands alongside sqad...
I've a morbid, horrified fascinated urge to watch it. Whether I honestly could if it was available (no, im not going to actively seek it out), I dunno, but I will admit to the gory fascination.
Isn't it kinda like when there's a crash scene on a motorway? We all rubber neck it!
I've a morbid, horrified fascinated urge to watch it. Whether I honestly could if it was available (no, im not going to actively seek it out), I dunno, but I will admit to the gory fascination.
Isn't it kinda like when there's a crash scene on a motorway? We all rubber neck it!
DT - "Simply, andy, you are probably better conditioned to see it. I am not saying inert to it."
That reminds me of Mary Whitehouse and her band of harridans back in the '70's - all of us were corrupted from here to wazoo by the 'filth' on television, while she and her cohorts remained mysteriously immune, even though they were obviously watching far more 'filth' than the rest of us, I know, I used to search for what she was on about, and I could never find it!
That argument didn't fly then, and it doesn't fly now.
That reminds me of Mary Whitehouse and her band of harridans back in the '70's - all of us were corrupted from here to wazoo by the 'filth' on television, while she and her cohorts remained mysteriously immune, even though they were obviously watching far more 'filth' than the rest of us, I know, I used to search for what she was on about, and I could never find it!
That argument didn't fly then, and it doesn't fly now.
andy-hughes, read the rule book and then tell me that fundamentalist Islam is twisting the spirit and ethos of Islam. Despite what they tell you, your friends know very well that it is not – which is why Muslims worldwide aren’t marching in their millions to denounce people like self-appointed spokesman for Islam, Anjem Choudary, or the perpetrators of the Paris atrocities – or IS. Take off your rose-coloured spectacles. They’re clouding your vision.
//To say that IS represents Islam is parallel to saying that Westboro Baptist Church represents Christianity. They both say they do ...//
The difference there is that you, I, and the rest of the western world are fully aware that the Westboro Baptist Church doesn’t represent all of the thousands of sects of Christianity, but how much do you really know about Islam? Clearly very, very little.
//To say that IS represents Islam is parallel to saying that Westboro Baptist Church represents Christianity. They both say they do ...//
The difference there is that you, I, and the rest of the western world are fully aware that the Westboro Baptist Church doesn’t represent all of the thousands of sects of Christianity, but how much do you really know about Islam? Clearly very, very little.
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