Would The Sentence Had Been Different, Had It Been A Man?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246760/Shamed-teaching-assistant-30-escapes-jail-admitted-having-sex-teenage-student.html

[andy-hughes]

It may well have been.

Cultural attitudes to this type of incident do vary , depending on the genders involved.

If a male adult sexually assaults a child, he is a pervert and a dirty old man, and the child is (quite rightly) a victim.

If a female adult sexually assaults a child, then she is seen as a vamp, and the child is a lucky boy, to be envied and admired.

This dichotomy is a hold-over from earlier times, when this was the prevalent attitude towards underage sex with adults - mostly it has to be said, society it making inroads into this unequal approach to a difficulty and damaging issue.

But it may be that the judiciary - not always at the pinnacle of modern thinking, may have seen this issue differently had the genders been reversed, but of course, this is pure speculation.

[anotheoldgit]

I wonder how the press managed to get hold of those posed photographs, copyright of the Manchester Evening News?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //I wonder how the press managed to get hold of those posed photographs, copyright of the Manchester Evening News? //

I would be easy to assume that the lady in question has done a deal with the paper, but let's not jump to conclusions.

[Peter Pedant]

she looks ok to me ....

I wonder how the press managed to get hold of those posed photographs, copyright of the Manchester Evening News?

copyright of hers surely ? do you re-read what you write AOG ?

[anotheoldgit]

Peter Pedant

/// copyright of hers surely ? do you re-read what you write AOG ? ///

Do you actually read?

Why else would their name be printed on every photograph?

© Manchester Evening News

[mikey4444]

Not sure AOG. We sometimes see cases like this but they are rather rare, so its difficult to tell.

But I am uneasy about these posed photographs. They add nothing to the important substance of the case and seem to be purely for titillation reasons.

[bazwillrun]

A wannabee WAG...Ill bet the boy isnt too upset about it all !

[mikey4444]

I don't imagine he was dragged, kicking and screaming into the bedroom either. At his age, back in the 60's I wouldn't have hesitated very much, I am sure !

But that is not the point. We have laws and they are there to protect children.

[anotheoldgit]

bazwillrun

/// Ill bet the boy isnt too upset about it all ! ///

Just like that girl wasn't too upset about it when she ran off abroad with her teacher.

But look what happened to him.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/09/schoolgirl-16-who-ran-away-with-teacher-jeremy-forrest-has-dumped-him-for-another-teacher-4491645/

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// I don't imagine he was dragged, kicking and screaming into the bedroom either. ///

Why is that sort of thing trotted out every time it involves a boy?

In this day and age, it would appear girls of that age also do not need dragging kicking and screaming into the bedroom either.

[mikey4444]

AOG...I think we are all broadly in agreement on this. If we start making exceptions to the rule for some people, it will soon get out of hand.

But I have been think about your original question and I am now thinking that yes, a man probably would have been treated differently.

But as with so many things like this, every case is different and its up to the Judge to pass sentence as he thinks fit.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //mikey4444

/// I don't imagine he was dragged, kicking and screaming into the bedroom either. ///

Why is that sort of thing trotted out every time it involves a boy?//

Because it underlines my point about society's attitudes to this sort of scenario, as opposed to the genders being switched, in which case there would be outrage about a 'dirty old man'.

[andy-hughes]

bazwillrun - //A wannabee WAG...Ill bet the boy isnt too upset about it all ! //

Two tall assumptions in one sentence.

The lad may have enjoyed the initial experience, but I would suggest that it being spread all over the media will not have enhanced subsequent interactions with school, family and friends.

[mikey4444]

Andy...I don't suppose some of the girls were unwilling either, but I have already stated that I don't believe that to an excuse for an older adult taking advantage of a child. Kids must be protected at all times.

[andy-hughes]

mikey - //Andy...I don't suppose some of the girls were unwilling either, but I have already stated that I don't believe that to an excuse for an older adult taking advantage of a child. Kids must be protected at all times.//

I agree entirely.

Stereotypical scene-setting by people old enough to know better imagines that a girl in this situation was coerced and had no idea what was happening, while a boy in this situation would be unable to believe his luck and would be 'made a man' by it, and boast in the playground the next day.

Fortunately the law takes a more even-handed view - child abuse is child abuse, and these fondly imagined scenarios are not the issue.

[bednobs]

the whole point of the q is that the law has not taken an even-handed approach though

[andy-hughes]

bednobs - //the whole point of the q is that the law has not taken an even-handed approach though //

I believe that the law does take an even-handed approach, but this may not be reflected in the sentencing, which is influenced by a number of factors which will have been revealed in the trail, but not made public.

It is easy once again to slip into the same perception as there is for the damage done to the child in question - lots for a female / none for a male - but each case is judged on its circumstances, so the easy conclusion is probably not the correct conclusion.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// in which case there would be outrage about a 'dirty old man'. ///

That surely is stereotyping, at what age does a dirty 'young man' become a dirty 'old man'?

But apart from that all 'old men' are not 'dirty'.

Also why are such women not described as paedophiles?

[EcclesCake]

Women are described as paedophiles when it is appropriate. An adult having sex with a teenager is not paedophilia, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you AOG.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //andy-hughes

/// in which case there would be outrage about a 'dirty old man'. ///

That surely is stereotyping, at what age does a dirty 'young man' become a dirty 'old man'? //

It is stereotyping, for the purpose of my post, I think that level of stereotyping is appropriate.

//But apart from that all 'old men' are not 'dirty'. //

Obviously not - nor is than inference that they are, as you advise, it is stereotyping for the purposes of the comments being made.

//Also why are such women not described as paedophiles?//

Because their interest is in young boys who are sexually active, a paedophile, by definition, is attracted to pre-pubescent children - so they are not paedophiles.