Hillsborough Disaster: Fans Unlawfully Killed

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36138337

At last...the truth is out.

Some important points from the above :::

Police failures led to the deaths in the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.

Jurors answered yes to the question about whether any police error caused or contributed to a dangerous situation at the 1989 FA Cup semi-final.

The behaviour of Liverpool fans did not contribute to the dangerous situation at the turnstiles.

[ToraToraTora]

If the police did nothing and they still died would we still be having this 26 year debate? Of course we would because this is about finding a witch to hunt, so get round their with your pitch forks and get it over with.

[ParsleyDumpling]

As TTT keeps stating that the cause of this disaster (in his opinion) is due the "multitude" of ticket-less fans trying to get in to watch the match, let me ask a question as someone who has only ever been to one match.

How many fans of other football teams regularly turned up for big matches without a ticket in the hope of getting to watch the match?

If, as I suspect, the the answer is that practically all teams have the same issue with regards to ticket-less fans, then surely what happened at Hillsborough was not out of the ordinary. The police and match officials should and would have been aware of that very common occurrence and have planned accordingly.
Therefore the actions of the ticket-less fans did not contribute to the ensuing tragedy in the ground.

[Baldric]

///as someone who has only ever been to one match///

///the actions of the ticket-less fans did not contribute to the ensuing tragedy in the ground///

at last, an expert opinion

[ToraToraTora]

I have been to more than 1 match and whilst there are ticketless fans they generally try and obtain a ticket by hanging around at the stations and pubs where those with them have them for sale. I have never seen hordes of them roaming about trying to force their way into a ground.

[ParsleyDumpling]

Baldric, I am not claiming to be an expert.

What I was trying to point out was that surely the actions of the Liverpool fans on that day were no different from any other clubs' fans at any other big match? And as such the police and especially the match officials would have been aware that fans without tickets would arrive at the ground in the hope of getting in.

[Gavmacp]

On the radio news they mentioned previous incidents being ignored.

[Baldric]

No expert here either, saw it on TV on the day and a good few times since, and it certainly looks as if those being forced against the wire at the front of the stand were having increasing pressure put on them by the amount of (ticketless?) fans still surging into the back of the stand seemingly unaware of what was happening.

[chrissa1]

The "ticketlesss fans" theory was ruled out as being contributory factor, here:

"The possibility of fans attempting to gain entry without tickets or with forged tickets was suggested as a contributing factor. South Yorkshire Police suggested the late arrival of fans amounted to a conspiracy to gain entry without tickets. However, analysis of the electronic monitoring system, Health and Safety Executive analysis, and eyewitness accounts showed that the total number of people who entered the Leppings Lane end was below the official capacity of the stand. Eye witness reports suggested that tickets were available on the day and tickets for the Leppings Lane end were on sale from Anfield until the day before. The report dismissed the conspiracy theory."

[ToraToraTora]

so how were the people crushed then? if not by weight of numbers? If they were all officially there then then fault lies with the ground having issued too many tickets for the space.

[jackthehat]

You have been told often enough, geezer.
The fans ALL tried to get into the ground through the one entrance....the Leppings Lane End. They had no idea that once they got into the stand they were completely corralled and that any fans already there wouldn't be able to move on elsewhere around the stadium...

[Svejk]

Do you consider it an unfortunate set of circumstances or a deliberate act to kill people, jack?

[jackthehat]

I consider it to be an unfortunate set of foreseeable circumstances which killed people.

[ToraToraTora]

.....and why were they corralled? could it be that the fences that caged and crushed them were necessitated by the behaviour of football fans collectively in the era? Could it be that the innocents who got there early were mercilessly crushed by those arriving late and by the past known behavior of the fans themselves? No let's blame a copper making errors trying to sort it on the day, much easier all round. I just don't buy it that the fans are blameless.

[Mamyalynne]

No one (as far as I or anyone else knows) set out that day with the deliberate intention of killing people.

What unfolded was the result of bad management and poor handling of a situation that could have been anticipated.

In many ways the worst thing of all are the lies and cover ups that followed.

This verdict brings a conclusion (or the beginnings of one) to some but for many there is no end to what they suffered and still are suffering.

[mikey4444]

Mamy...if I had not already done so, you would have got BA for that post.

[jackthehat]

Of course the fences were there because of the awful behaviour of many football-following hooligans at that time.
However, the police and the ground-staff at Hillsborough knew that theses pens existed and just how they separated one section from the other whereas the Liverpool fans didn't....

YOU may not believe in the fans innocence but all evidence discovered thus far shows that they are considered to be blameless by those who have looked at all the facts.

[vulcan42]

\\ However, analysis of the electronic monitoring system, Health and Safety Executive analysis, and eyewitness accounts showed that the total number of people who entered the Leppings Lane end was below the official capacity of the stand.//
Does anybody know what the electronic monitoring system consisted of?

[Mamyalynne]

I don't need or want BA, don't worry, but thank you.

I am fortunate in the fact that as well as the horrific front page newspaper photograph of my terrified nephew's face a row behind the dead and dying I also have him still in my life - so many haven't.

[mikey4444]

Mamy, you and your nephew were very lucky that day !

[Baldric]

Mikey you can change a BA, just award it to Mamya