Grammar Schools

[mikey4444]

It would seem that Mrs May is poised to take Britain back to the 1950's here.

This man is the Chief Inspector of Schools, so he should know what he is talking about ::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37316202

[Peter Pedant]

// The reason so many people need to go to “university” is because the State education system is singularly unable to provide a decent academic secondary education by the age of 18.//

this is new judge-speak and not the opinion of some mandarin at the Ministry innit ? No one in govt is saying ( or has said ) that you need universities because skoolz are so bad - or are they ?

and Mikey is right - the percentage pupils going to uni from state schools has fallen - so grammar schools were an agent of social change and not a barrier

[Old_Geezer]

I think it fair enough that there is only State schools. The State is responsible for ensuring all get as good a level of education as possible commiserate with their abilities. Having all State avoids schools pushing religious agendas. And private schools are either no better than State so the parents need help in not getting taken for a ride, or they are and some are buying a better education when others' parents can not afford it. Not a level playing field.

Such schools ought to be operating within the State system instead, passing on their best practices info as advice.

Meanwhile streaming into different types of school to best match teaching method and pupil ability, is no bad thing. The problem was always only later developers and how/whether to switch schools. But no system is going to be perfect.

[New Judge]

I base my argument, Peter, on the fact that the proportion of jobs in the UK that truly require a "proper" degree level education is about the same now as it was fifty years ago. Yet employers feel the need to require a degree now for jobs which, then, would have required three to five decent 'O' Levels.

The result is that four out of five people who graduate with £27k+ worth of debt (having been encouraged to believe that the world will be their oyster) end up doing a job that fifty years ago would have been undertaken by a sixteen year old. Unsurprisingly they are somewhat disappointed.

[chiaroscuro]

http://education.lms.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/O_level_1957.pdf

[New Judge]

Thanks for the nostalgia, chiaroscuro. I took my 'O' Level maths a little later than 1957 but the paper was similar. However, I don't recall a section on the history of maths. Looking at the paper I's be OK with the arithmetic and geometry (with a little bit of brushing up). I'm not sure I'd do quite so well with the algebra (which was never my strong point) but I daresay I'd get by. I reckon I'd pass with a fairly good grade.

Yes, db. In the late 1960s five good 'O' Levels (including maths and a science would see you eligible to apply for a short-service commission in the RAF in groundstaff disciplines. 2 'A' Levels required for aircrew.

[jim360]

"Why can Archimedes be regarded as the originator of the integral calculus?"

Erm... he can't. Although a shame that the history of mathematics is no longer a part of any normal curriculum that I'm aware of.

[jno]

Grammar schools always seem to get high praise from those who passed their 11 plus. Does anyone bother asking those who failed? Or are they "biased" in a way those who succeeded are not?

[Peter Pedant]

// NJ. How true. There was a time 5 'O' Levels could get you a really good job/career. That was once the min requirement for a pilot.//

god knows when and where

1968 9 o levels and a handful of a levels - I got a job as a techie at Porton Down - £32 / month I remember - five week months were a problem for lodgings at £7 /wk

sorry boys - a bit of an unwelcome reality check there

[Peter Pedant]

// jno, I must admit that those of us who passed 11+ could be a bit sniffy towards those who passed 13+.//

first menion - ever - 13+ this year
for the kidz who realised that failing the 11+ was a big career mistake

part time day release and colleges of further education seem to have passed beyond as well

[jim360]

I'm aware of the history, divebuddy -- I just think that, at the very least, it's a massive oversimplification of his work to imply that Archmedes originated or envisioned integral calculus. But that's a debate for another time, I suppose.

[Peter Pedant]

Jim !

archimedes did that ? without algebra ? wow !

and I thought it was Newton and Leibnitz in 1676 ( May I think )

as a maff grad - you will also have noticed the hopeless confusion between per cent and actual numbers in this thread. ho hum....

[Togo]

//Grammar schools always seem to get high praise from those who passed their 11 plus.//

No they don't, there is a regular poster who having passed the 11+ decries and regularly posts an anti Grammar School critique.

[Peter Pedant]

db I believe you I believe you

is it true what you said about Archimedes ?

[Tuvok]

What is a Grammar school?

As far as I was aware here in Scotland its the same as any secondary school.

In our area we have have Place name Academy, Place name High School and Place name Grammar.

[Togo]

//Haha mikey I can let that go//

Notice the Haha there mikey?? Your first 3 words at 14:30 were as superfluous as anything you have ever posted.