Ukip's New Leader Says She Counts Vladimir Putin As A Political Hero

[mikey4444]

Blimey....she has only been in the job for 5 mins and already she has put her foot in it !

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/18/new-ukip-leader-says-she-counts-vladimir-putin-as-a-political-hero

So, not just Trump that thinks Putin is an awfully nice chap then !

[ichkeria]

NEIL: So: Putin, Churchill and Thatcher?
JAMES: Yes (I don't know how to spell her actual response'

Seems perfectly clear to me, and she doesn't even bother changing the order which the crafty Mr Neil has assembled :-)

[ichkeria]

Anjem Choudhary seems like a committed sort of fellow too who 'stands up' for radical Islam. Doubtless the head of ISIS stands up for them, and while we're at it the head of Amnesty International doubtless ....
Jetemy Corbyn: one can't deny that he stands up for the Labour Party members as he is always reminding us

And so on

Just because you 'stand up' for X y or z, good or bad, hardly makes you admirable per se.
That's why I'd like to see her questioned a bit more closely .

[naomi24]

Why it is so difficult to understand that she wasn’t talking about personalities or politics, but about leaders who are nationalists and committed to their countries. Sheesh!! It really is hard work on here at times!

[ichkeria]

Not talking about personalities?
I really am lost. It plainly IS more complicated than I thought ;-)
Andrew Neil is a lot clever than Ms James, although in fairness he is a lot clever than most of his interviewees.
The kindest thing you can say is that she fell for a classic Neil trap :-) Though not the most subtle of the breed perhaps

[naomi24]

ichkeria, no, she is not talking about personalities. I’m not sure I’d number Jeremy Corbyn among those committed to a cause - he seems to me to be committed to his own cause - but you’re quite right in saying that both Anjem Choudhary and the head of ISIS would fall into that category - the point being that there is no requirement to like, admire, or agree with a leader or his politics or agenda to recognise and acknowledge his dedication and commitment.

[ichkeria]

But how do you know about Putin's 'commitment'?
I don't see how that helps.
What really do any of us, and Diane James especially, really know what Putin has done for his country or more importantly his people, most of whom now live in poverty and whose mothers whose sons died in his war in Ukraine are denied even the dignity of knowing what really happened to them.
When you strip away the corruption, the thuggery, the lies, the criminality (what's the betting he authorised the Dancing Bears' or wherever they are called) hackery - what's left?
Churchill we can all agree led the fee world to victory against fascism, Thatcher one can argue about depending on ones politics, but at least there people know the things she did, good and bad.
With Putin you just feel it's 'falling for the strong man' hype It goes down well probably with many, so if that is all she's about then fair enough :-)

[anotheoldgit]

naomi24

/// recognise and acknowledge his dedication and commitment. ///

As one would recognise a Jehovah's Witnesses's dedication and commitment.

[naomi24]

ichkeria, whether it be right or wrong - and as with Thatcher, people will argue the toss - it's her perception of his commitment. Nothing more than that.

[naomi24]

AOG, //As one would recognise a Jehovah's Witnesses's dedication and commitment. //

Certainly.

[-Talbot-]

ichkeria
NEIL: So: Putin, Churchill and Thatcher?
JAMES: Yes (I don't know how to spell her actual response'
__________________________________________


Try ... 'um uh'


So her actual response wasn't anything like the media are trying to put over.
Even if she does rate Putin as a leader this is a 90 post thread about words she didn't even say.

[youngmafbog]

It's a 'ghastly' UKIP person on the end of it Talbot, are you surprised on here?

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// Blimey....she has only been in the job for 5 mins and already she has put her foot in it ! ///

"Put a foot in it"

Judging by the response your thread as obviously unexpectedly attracted, it won't be a first time you have put your foot in it.

[naomi24]

-Talbot-, sorry, I have read what you've been saying, but I think the issue, for me at least, became a matter of principle.

[ichkeria]

" it's her perception of his commitment. Nothing more than that. "

Precisely! Shallow and amoral. If it was not for the "a(dmire)" word it wouldn't really be a big deal. For example, I appreciate that Thatcher was a formidable leader, and I admire some of the things she did, but I admire less than I disapprove of. The same goes for Winnie, although the things I DO approve of far outweigh in importance all the rest.

"Try ... 'um uh' "

Yes but "um uh" when written sounds like "uh, I'm not sure", not the smiling endorsement it plainly was. Saying that she didn't mention Putin by name is a hopeless cop out. She didn't need to.

[naomi24]

ichkeria, Seems we're going around in circles here. And I thought I was getting somewhere with the explanation. Oh well....

[Khandro]

Over and out [i unsubscribes [i]

[naomi24]

Wise move, Khandro. You can lead a horse to water .... and all that.

[Baldric]

"Well, two out of three ain't bad!"

[ichkeria]

" You can lead a horse to water .... and all that."

Rather an unfortunate turn of phrase perhaps. (Thinks of Litvinenko :-) )

[agchristie]

Naomi > ichkeria, Seems we're going around in circles here. And I thought I was getting somewhere with the explanation. Oh well....

No nearer to a 'round up' and this no100 in this thread :(