Religion & Spirituality - What...
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New Ukip Leader Calls For A Uk Burqa Ban.
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http://
/// You have to look at the other issues surrounding security, because whether we like it or not we are the most watched people in the world. There’s more CCTV in Britain per head than anywhere else on the planet. And for CCTV to be effective you need to see people’s
faces.” ///
Must admit that he has a point.
/// You have to look at the other issues surrounding security, because whether we like it or not we are the most watched people in the world. There’s more CCTV in Britain per head than anywhere else on the planet. And for CCTV to be effective you need to see people’s
faces.” ///
Must admit that he has a point.
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Naomi - //andy-hughes, //That sounds like a seriously intolerant and right-wing viewpoint //
That word 'intolerance' pops up regularly. I have to ask why the 'tolerant' are actually willing to tolerate Muslim attitudes towards women, gays, etc., etc? //
That's a 'When did you stop beating your wife?' approach - you'll excuse me if I don't follow you down that cul-de-sac.
That word 'intolerance' pops up regularly. I have to ask why the 'tolerant' are actually willing to tolerate Muslim attitudes towards women, gays, etc., etc? //
That's a 'When did you stop beating your wife?' approach - you'll excuse me if I don't follow you down that cul-de-sac.
Naomi - //andy-hughes. don't start with the threats of removal of threads again. v-e is sticking to the subject. The link refers to more than security. //
I am not 'threatening' anything - vetusti has spent two posts trying to get a reaction, nothing to do with the thread, and that was the point I was making.
I am not 'threatening' anything - vetusti has spent two posts trying to get a reaction, nothing to do with the thread, and that was the point I was making.
I find it interesting Nuttall should chose this dog-whistle issue to talk about, as his first public utterance, just a few hours after being elected Leader of UKIP, instead of issues of real importance.
Like the economy, housing, or perhaps the NHS. Here are his views on the NHS :::
A post on his website, (that's now deleted but was available in 2014), said:
"I would like to congratulate the coalition government for bringing a whiff of privatisation into the beleaguered National Health Service."
"I would argue that the very existence of the NHS stifles competition, and as competition drives quality and choice, innovation and improvements are restricted"
http://
Like the economy, housing, or perhaps the NHS. Here are his views on the NHS :::
A post on his website, (that's now deleted but was available in 2014), said:
"I would like to congratulate the coalition government for bringing a whiff of privatisation into the beleaguered National Health Service."
"I would argue that the very existence of the NHS stifles competition, and as competition drives quality and choice, innovation and improvements are restricted"
http://
“It seems to have moved onto the usual anti-Islam issues (some valid, some based on ignorance/hatred/fear)”
I think I first moved it on f-f, and for very good reasons. Although the issue raised by Mr Nuttall was that of the facemask, the root cause of its use is Islams’s attitude to and treatment of women. For my part it is no use simply outlawing its use (if such a move would ever be countenanced). The facemask is only a manifestation of the discriminatory attitudes prevalent in Islam. Many women (and indeed many men) fought long and hard in Europe to see that women were treated properly and equally. That didn’t just do so for themselves, they did it for all women. Now we have a group of women who are discriminated against by their menfolk, treated as child-bearing chattels and who are subject to the sort of inequality that would see men from other groups in court.
I do object to the facemask, per se. I find it offensive and divisive. Furthermore, as a man, I find the reason often cited for its necessity and the rest of the all enveloping garb that Muslim women wear – accompanied by the latest Adidas or Nike trainers, natch - that men cannot be trusted to control themselves when seeing a woman, downright rude. But it is not just the facemask that I object to. It is Islam itself.
It’s no use saying that people like me should not consider western culture and values to be superior to those of Islam. The point is that they are different but the more important point is that they are incompatible. One set of values must prevail if tension is not to be engendered.
I think I first moved it on f-f, and for very good reasons. Although the issue raised by Mr Nuttall was that of the facemask, the root cause of its use is Islams’s attitude to and treatment of women. For my part it is no use simply outlawing its use (if such a move would ever be countenanced). The facemask is only a manifestation of the discriminatory attitudes prevalent in Islam. Many women (and indeed many men) fought long and hard in Europe to see that women were treated properly and equally. That didn’t just do so for themselves, they did it for all women. Now we have a group of women who are discriminated against by their menfolk, treated as child-bearing chattels and who are subject to the sort of inequality that would see men from other groups in court.
I do object to the facemask, per se. I find it offensive and divisive. Furthermore, as a man, I find the reason often cited for its necessity and the rest of the all enveloping garb that Muslim women wear – accompanied by the latest Adidas or Nike trainers, natch - that men cannot be trusted to control themselves when seeing a woman, downright rude. But it is not just the facemask that I object to. It is Islam itself.
It’s no use saying that people like me should not consider western culture and values to be superior to those of Islam. The point is that they are different but the more important point is that they are incompatible. One set of values must prevail if tension is not to be engendered.
“That sounds like a seriously intolerant and right-wing viewpoint - please feel free to contradict me if I have misunderstood what you are saying.”
I don’t really have a definition of “Right-Wing”, Andy, but my view is certainly intolerant. Intolerance seems to be rife among Islamists. It’s quite true that it does not usually pay to stoop to the low levels sometimes displayed by people with whom one disagrees. But where so much intolerance is demonstrated against the culture of “host” nations, with no sign of it abating, it seems to me the only answer. I have no tolerance of Islamic practices because I find them offensive and discriminatory and I believe they have no place in Western Europe. Many Muslims clearly find Western culture abhorrent. They will not change their attitudes and I see no reason why we should change ours. There is no reconciliation to be had as far as I can see so the only solution I can suggest (before serious unrest ensues) is for Muslims to depart to a place where their views may be more readily accepted by the majority.
I don’t really have a definition of “Right-Wing”, Andy, but my view is certainly intolerant. Intolerance seems to be rife among Islamists. It’s quite true that it does not usually pay to stoop to the low levels sometimes displayed by people with whom one disagrees. But where so much intolerance is demonstrated against the culture of “host” nations, with no sign of it abating, it seems to me the only answer. I have no tolerance of Islamic practices because I find them offensive and discriminatory and I believe they have no place in Western Europe. Many Muslims clearly find Western culture abhorrent. They will not change their attitudes and I see no reason why we should change ours. There is no reconciliation to be had as far as I can see so the only solution I can suggest (before serious unrest ensues) is for Muslims to depart to a place where their views may be more readily accepted by the majority.
//That word 'intolerance' pops up regularly. I have to ask why the 'tolerant' are actually willing to tolerate Muslim attitudes towards women, gays, etc., etc? //
//That's a 'When did you stop beating your wife?' approach - you'll excuse me if I don't follow you down that cul-de-sac.//
It’s nothing of the sort, Andy. Many people in the UK preach tolerance of Muslims attitudes and practices. But why should we be tolerant of practices, carried out in the name of a religion, which would not be permitted by any other group and which sometimes may see the practioners end up in court?
I make no apology for expanding the debate beyond the facemask. Mr Nuttall’s remark was clearly made because he realises that many people in the UK do not wish to see Islamic practices gaining a hold in their communities. I believe it is not the facemask itself which needs to be challenged but the attitudes and practices which lead women to don it.
//That's a 'When did you stop beating your wife?' approach - you'll excuse me if I don't follow you down that cul-de-sac.//
It’s nothing of the sort, Andy. Many people in the UK preach tolerance of Muslims attitudes and practices. But why should we be tolerant of practices, carried out in the name of a religion, which would not be permitted by any other group and which sometimes may see the practioners end up in court?
I make no apology for expanding the debate beyond the facemask. Mr Nuttall’s remark was clearly made because he realises that many people in the UK do not wish to see Islamic practices gaining a hold in their communities. I believe it is not the facemask itself which needs to be challenged but the attitudes and practices which lead women to don it.
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