Should Ms Le Pen Be Forced To Conform To Islam's Practice Of Covering Their Female's Heads?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/770064/Marine-Le-Pen-headscarf-controversy-Grand-Mufti-Lebanon-meeting-French-Front-National

/// A spokesman for the Grand Mufti said Ms Le Pen's aides had been informed beforehand of their requirement for her to wear head covering for the meeting in Lebanese capital Beirut. ///

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - //You didn't answer why the sight of a woman's hair and head
would cause embarrassment and discomfort ... it would be a great feat if you could but you can't. //

I have no idea why. I don't know why the earth spins round the sun, but not knowing why is not a barrier to accepting something.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - //If you can learn to read the difference between pointing something out,


does that even make sense? //

No - cutting a sentence in half often takes the sense away.

What I said was - //If you can learn to read the difference between pointing something out, which I did, and agreeing that it is acceptable, which I did not, you won't have to ask questions to which you claim you know the answer - even when you clearly don't. //

You must learn to curb your rush to challenge everything I post, and take a couple of minutes to actually read it first - that way you'll save time, and not look so foolish.

[ToraToraTora]

No

[Khandro]

There are really big issues about the attempted Islamification of Europe, and it is these we need to seriously focus on, but anyone visiting another country requires to show good manners, people asserting such stupidity as, 'If we do that there, then they must do this here' are really losing the plot, - this is playground stuff.
As jack says previously, 50 years ago no woman would be right, or feel right, to enter any European cathedral bareheaded, and no man would feel similarly right entering wearing a hat - imo, this is still the case, I recently told a slob to remove his baseball cap in a Cathedral, because he was in a house of God, and if he didn't believe so, or didn't like it, then he should leave", - he took it off without demur.
I say; set an example, stay focussed, and keep the faith kids!

[andy-hughes]

Khandro - I agree with your perception of courtesy, and as I pointed out in my post - when the visit is a diplomatic one, it behoves the visitor to be diplomatic in a literal sense - and avoid upsetting her hosts needlessly by scoring a petty point like this.

As far as Muslim dress goes - it does offend some Muslims if women are bare-headed, but it does not offend us as Westerners if they go with their heads covered - or at least it shouldn't!

I believe that integration is an organic process, and the fewer stands made on really unnecessary issues, the better.

[SnookerPlayer]

a slob to remove his baseball cap in a Cathedral, because he was in a house of God, and if he didn't believe so, or didn't like it, then he should leave",


As god does not exist and a cathedral is only a building, why not wear a hat. A "slob" what a silly thing to say

[Adulmus]

As the last living representative of Maréchal Pétain and Pierre Laval so she damned well should. Vichy needs all the friends it can get.

[andy-hughes]

SnookerPlayer - // As god does not exist and a cathedral is only a building, why not wear a hat. A "slob" what a silly thing to say //

I am not sure that Khandro would have used that term to the gentleman concerned, my experience of his posts suggests he would not be that rude to a stranger.

I am entirely in agreement that God does not exist, and a cathedral is a building, but this issue is about respect for others.

On that basis, as an atheist who likes going into churches, I visit them often, and if I am wearing a hat - as I do on holiday - then I remove it, not because I believe I am in God's house, but because people around me believe it, and it is disrespectful of me not to consider their feelings.

[SnookerPlayer]

Khandro used the term "slob" here. Says more about him than the cap wearer.

[SnookerPlayer]

I would actually remove any headwear when visiting a building like a church,cathedral. I just object to being referred to as a slob for not doing so.

[Khandro]

He was a slob, no doubt about it, would you like a fuller description?

[Mothman]

I tend to agree with most of what you post Andy, but would take exception to: //As far as Muslim dress goes - it does offend some Muslims if women are bare-headed, but it does not offend us as Westerners if they go with their heads covered - or at least it shouldn't! //. I'm not offended by Muslims covering their heads but I am offended by the dual standards employed - that we should respect their culture, traditions etc when visiting a Muslim country, but should also put our culture, traditions etc on hold when a Muslim wants to wear their gear over here. I just want to see a level playing field - not bothered which one.

However, in terms of this particular story Mrs Le Pen should be only too willing to cover her head, the French have been pretty forthright in banning burkini's and full face veils because they do not fit with their secular outlook (which is fine - it's their country after all) but by demanding that kind of respect from Muslims in France they should also show the same respect when visiting any Muslim country and abide by their cultural norms. Mrs Le Pen wants to have her cake and eat it.

[andy-hughes]

Mothman - // ... but I am offended by the dual standards employed - that we should respect their culture, traditions etc when visiting a Muslim country, but should also put our culture, traditions etc on hold when a Muslim wants to wear their gear over here.

As I see it, the point is this - wearing certain dress is part of the Muslim faith, observed to varying degrees by adherants.

Christianity does not have a set dress code, so therefore, there is no reciprocal arrangement to be made.

It appears that some people think that Muslims are conforming to British culture by not wearing different clothing, when clearly they are not, since we don't have a clothing code to adhere to, or ignore.

I don't think it's fair to try and insist that people do as we actually don't do - which is wear specific faith-based clothing.

[anotheoldgit]

vetuste_ennemi

/// Hey, AOG, what are Le Pen's critics going to make of this: ///

More important, what are those horns growing out of the Ex-First Lady's head, 0.33secs into the video? Scary!!!!!!!!!

[naomi24]

I assume that Marine le Pen’s refusal to cover her head was because she wouldn’t accede to a situation where, symbolically, she appeared subservient. A woman of principle.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - //I assume that Marine le Pen’s refusal to cover her head was because she wouldn’t accede to a situation where, symbolically, she appeared subservient. A woman of principle. //

Sometimes, pragmatism trumps (see what I did there!) priciples.

As a potential national leader, Ms. Le Pen would do well to remember to pick her battles - this was a minor matter of protocol, and as I have said before, by imagining she positions herself as 'non-subservient', and 'a woman of principle', she actually looks chippy, thin-skinned, arrogant and un-co-operative - not qualities a national leader should be looking to display to nations she needs to negotiate with in the future.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, //she actually looks chippy, thin-skinned, arrogant and un-co-operative//

To you perhaps but not to me.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - it matters not how it looks to you or I, but it does matter how it looks to potential voters, the world's media, and world leaders.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, Marine le Pen's supporters would applaud her for taking this stance.

[Togo]

//They simply have a different culture from ours - as do other countries, nothing makes ours 'right' and theirs 'wrong' - //

They certainly do. The issue is they insists that their "culture is right and ours wrong in their own Countries, whilst in our Country they insist that ours is wrong and theirs is right.