Should Ms Le Pen Be Forced To Conform To Islam's Practice Of Covering Their Female's Heads?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/770064/Marine-Le-Pen-headscarf-controversy-Grand-Mufti-Lebanon-meeting-French-Front-National

/// A spokesman for the Grand Mufti said Ms Le Pen's aides had been informed beforehand of their requirement for her to wear head covering for the meeting in Lebanese capital Beirut. ///

[andy-hughes]

As is clear, Ms Le Pen cannot be 'forced' into wearing anything.

I think it is a courtesy to your hosts to conform to a dress code that makes them feel comfortable, if doing do does not in turn make you feel uncomfortable.

If Ms le Pen feels it is important enough for her to make a stand on the issue of head-covering, then that is her choice, but I think it shows a level of intransigence and unwillingness to accept cultural differences that does not bode well for future international relations with Arab countries.

[ichkeria]

I can't be bothered to check, but what on earth was she doing trying to drum up support in Lebanon? I can't believe her stock would be high there, esp among the moslem communities. Maybe all those Lebanese banks :-)
It would not, of course, be anything to do with engineering a controversy would it. It's not as if this collision could not be seen coming a mile off...

[chiaroscuro]

Who is this female with more than one head?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Westerners travelling to Muslim countries should respect the dress-code of their hosts.

It is equally (but not conversely) true of Muslims moving to Western countries: Westerners should respect the dress codes of their guests.

It's all about "respect", you see, but without the mutuality which usually qualifies that over-used word.

[andy-hughes]

Vetuste - it is easy for Westerners to assume that a woman covering her head in a Muslim country is simply a courtesy, but it is rather more than that.

The sight of a woman - especially a Western woman, with her head uncovered, would cause severe embrassment and discomfort to Ms. Le Pen's hosts, together with the feeling that disrespect is being shown, something to be avoided at all costs.

As such, in the interest of important talks not being compromised by feelings of such embarrassment and discomfort, and the feeling that the guest does not respect the home and faith of the host, it is incumbent on Ms Le Pen to abide by the protocols in place in this situation.

There are ample locations and opportunities for Ms. Le Pen to register her disquiet at Muslim dress codes - the home of her hosts during diplomatic talks is neither the time or the place.

[Bazile]

I'm surprised that the lady in question was allowed to sit with Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri , with so mugh leg showing - in the 5th picture in that link

[vetuste_ennemi]

Hey, AOG, what are Le Pen's critics going to make of this:

[-Talbot-]

The sight of a woman - especially a Western woman, with her head uncovered, would cause severe embrassment and discomfort to Ms. Le Pen's hosts,


Why For Funks Sake .... why?
What is wrong with these people?

Why even bother trying to justify what these misogynistic A-holes try to impose on women?

[whiskeryron]

I am sick & tired of do gooders & the PC brigade falling over backwards to appease Muslims. If Muslims want their women to go about with bags over their heads that is their business, western women also have the right to wear what they choose. Good luck to Ms Le Pen, if they don't like it hard luck.

[kvalidir]

I can't stand the woman or anything she stands for, but if this had been in France I would have said no of course she should not be asked to cover her head if she did not wish to, but it wasn't she travelled to a Muslim country, knowing the dress code and knowing in advance that this is what would be expected to save embarrassment. She obviously arranged the meeting quite cynically so that she could cancel it in a huff over this matter and further her hard right agenda by suggesting that some Muslims had tried to 'force' her to wear a headscarf.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - //Why For Funks Sake .... why?
What is wrong with these people? //

Nothing.

They simply have a different culture from ours - as do other countries, nothing makes ours 'right' and theirs 'wrong' - if you grow up within a culture, then what is around you is normal, and what is different is odd, or offensive, or embarrassing.

In Tailand, if you pick your nose in public, no-one will bat an eyelid, but if you show the soles of your feet, people will be absolutely outraged.

You simply have to accept that other peoples live differently from us, and it is courtesy to accept and adhere to these practices when you visit.

[andy-hughes]

whiskeyron - So you won't mind if French Muslims dig their heels in and wear burkas because they don't see why they should show cultural acceptance in France, when Ms Le Pen does not feel the need when she is in a Muslim country.

Fair enough?

[-Talbot-]

Absolute drivel, andy.

You either think women should be treated equal to men or you don't

You either support men in their thinking that women are not the equal or men or you don't.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - //Absolute drivel, andy.

You either think women should be treated equal to men or you don't

You either support men in their thinking that women are not the equal or men or you don't. //

I have pointed out the courtesies involved in diplomatic visits between countries, and attempted to explain to you the cultural differences that you appear either not to see, or not to accept, or both.

My personal views on the subject have not been brought into the debate at all, so your suggestion that I don't agree with equality is not only offensive, it is completely unfounded because at no time have I ever said that I agree with Muslim cultural practices, only that I observe them for what they are.

If you want to get het up about equality, then start your own thread, and I will be happy to discuss it with you there.

This thread is about a Western leader being wilfully stubborn and putting obstacles in the way of diplomatic relations because of her need to express her personal dislike of the cultural practices of a country where she is a guest.

[kvalidir]

Yes I do think women should be treated equally, hence I don't see why a Western man should be able to tell her she can't wear a Burkha if she so desires, it cuts both ways. Some women are empowered by dressing in skimpy clothing and some women are empowered by modesty, both is equally valid.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//...she travelled to a Muslim country, knowing the dress code and knowing in advance that this is what would be expected//

"She" Marine and "she" Michelle, yes, Kvalidir?

[Khandro]

Several other women haven't covered their heads; German minister Ursula von der Leyer, Duchess of Cornwall Camilla, Princess Mary of Denmark and Michelle Obama (despite her husband being a Muslim :0)

I know I'm a bit of a rebel in many things, but if it was me (and I were a woman) I think wearing a nice expensive Hermes scarf wouldn't bother me at all, - though I'd probably phone ahead and ask them to provide me with one, which I'd expect to keep of course.

[kvalidir]

'She' was originally referring to Marine le Pen, however equally it applies to Michelle Obama, both rude and inappropriate imho.

[Mamyalynne]

Barack Obama is not a Muslim.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I understand the point you're making completely, by the way. I wonder if you understand or accept any of the following three points of mine.

Firstly, that if one criticises Le Pen for "lack of respect" one ought criticise Obama too.

Secondly, if we're being asked to respect another culture, then we should expect, no demand that that respect be reciprocated.

But thirdly, and most importantly, there are cultural norms which should be neither respected nor tolerated.