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How Should Islamic Extremism In The Uk Be Dealt With?
Reportedly last night's terrorists started their attack shouting "This is for Allah". The usual routine after these increasingly common events is for certain people to claim these are not real Muslims, and for a small section of apparently real Muslims to condemn these actions and admit more should be done within their community to stamp out extremism. Yet it appears to be getting worse, not better. To what extent do you feel the British Muslim community as a whole can be held responsible and should be penalised - say by the closing of Mosques and Islamic schools - at least until Islamic extremism is reduced if not eliminated?
Answers
Diogenes struck the father when the son swore, For father, read 'imam'. All preaching in UK mosques - and to make it even, in all other religious gatherings - should be done only in English and recorded on CCTV. All Muslim faith schools should be closed.
09:50 Sun 04th Jun 2017
One can not remove vast swathes of citizens from the country. Bad enough the justification is because they are suspected because of their professed religion, so they have to go; but the main obstacle is that is impractical, far too large a job. For most, who were born here, there's no where to send them anyway. And we'd be an international pariah to try it. It is no solution.
Plus it would create vast numbers of sympathisers for those affected, some of whom will decide that joining the evil doers who resort to violence on the innocent, is an appropriate response.
As for how one knows not all Muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathisers, it's easy to ask how one knows they are not, knowing that proof of how someone thinks, is impossible. But common sense indicates that such an absurd situation, that all are terrorists, is extremely unlikely; and getting to know a few decent Muslims adds support that it is not so.
One can clamp down on immigration across the board; the country is too full anyway, but that's easier after Brexit. Aside from that it has to be good Intelligence and targeted surveillance. It won't ever be 100% successful, it can't be, but it will limit the damage until this extremism is finally rooted out. Complaining that it isn't enough, pouring scorn on it, and suggesting inappropriate responses that can only make things worse, are not going to help solve the problem.
Plus it would create vast numbers of sympathisers for those affected, some of whom will decide that joining the evil doers who resort to violence on the innocent, is an appropriate response.
As for how one knows not all Muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathisers, it's easy to ask how one knows they are not, knowing that proof of how someone thinks, is impossible. But common sense indicates that such an absurd situation, that all are terrorists, is extremely unlikely; and getting to know a few decent Muslims adds support that it is not so.
One can clamp down on immigration across the board; the country is too full anyway, but that's easier after Brexit. Aside from that it has to be good Intelligence and targeted surveillance. It won't ever be 100% successful, it can't be, but it will limit the damage until this extremism is finally rooted out. Complaining that it isn't enough, pouring scorn on it, and suggesting inappropriate responses that can only make things worse, are not going to help solve the problem.
// To what extent do you feel the British Muslim community as a whole can be held responsible and should be penalised //
none
this is a direct parallel to IRA terrorism ( refuted by the usual suspects with the cimple argument - "I have said a thousand times it isnt") where the ideal solution is to send all the roman catholics ( english and irish ) back to Ireland ! (plan A)
no wonder plan A has got best answer
none
this is a direct parallel to IRA terrorism ( refuted by the usual suspects with the cimple argument - "I have said a thousand times it isnt") where the ideal solution is to send all the roman catholics ( english and irish ) back to Ireland ! (plan A)
no wonder plan A has got best answer
"Mikey, I’ve told you before. Most, if not all of the people who have committed these atrocities were known to the security services. "
The opening of closed minds and setting aside partisan mindsets would be a beginning
http://
The opening of closed minds and setting aside partisan mindsets would be a beginning
http://
Limiting consideration/comment to the UK, what the UK does not need, ever, is to be guided by people with profit/power (the military and the industrial complex, vainglorious politicians, USA presidents) or those foaming at the mouth with jingoism or other simple prejudice.
The people causing a lot of grief these days are those who are guided by schemers who keep themselves out of harm's way while exercising a very strong power over what basically are rather simple-minded people (simplistic analysis, simplistic solutions). The schemers are guided by narrow minded anger over their form of bullying (religious dictate) being disrupted - they actually fear its erosion as people begin to take it less seriously than they insist it should be and their "own" people start to think for themselves.
No religion is more powerful or evil than the adherents themselves allow it to be, it is just a jumble of words and ideas and "tradition" - the last is what is the problem, just like elitism, class, etc. is the UK's problem, albeit a less controversial and less lethal one. The mindset within the "nation" of believers in Islam is changing, not least because of terrorism driven by Islamic doctrine. Condemnation of these acts is less robust than what it might be because of "tradition", of which deference to religious leaders, real and would-be alike, is a huge obstacle. To face someone and tell him/her that he/she is way past acceptable limits in their "devotion" to the holy book is unthinkable to the vast majority of Muslims - "traditionally" there can be no such thing as too religiously driven, "too good a Muslim". They have been brought up within a society which impresses on them the importance of measuring up to the scrutiny of others, there is a constant presence of the need to prove that you are a "good" Muslim (i.e. that you overtly show it. At the behest of the schemers, the terrorists have extrapolated this pressure way past the accepted norm among the rest of their community.
Ayatollah Khomeini justified suicide tactics for use in the war with Iraq, something that previously was utter anathema within Islam, the schemers thought this was a great idea and have been using it ever since. I have spent years in Iran since Khomeini's time and it was quite clear that people there despise what he started with what they see as a perversion of the religion in sending thousands of boys to clear minefields by setting them off on foot.
Terrorism is a scourge but let's see it for what it is and not resort to Donaldian rhetoric or measures based on it.
The people causing a lot of grief these days are those who are guided by schemers who keep themselves out of harm's way while exercising a very strong power over what basically are rather simple-minded people (simplistic analysis, simplistic solutions). The schemers are guided by narrow minded anger over their form of bullying (religious dictate) being disrupted - they actually fear its erosion as people begin to take it less seriously than they insist it should be and their "own" people start to think for themselves.
No religion is more powerful or evil than the adherents themselves allow it to be, it is just a jumble of words and ideas and "tradition" - the last is what is the problem, just like elitism, class, etc. is the UK's problem, albeit a less controversial and less lethal one. The mindset within the "nation" of believers in Islam is changing, not least because of terrorism driven by Islamic doctrine. Condemnation of these acts is less robust than what it might be because of "tradition", of which deference to religious leaders, real and would-be alike, is a huge obstacle. To face someone and tell him/her that he/she is way past acceptable limits in their "devotion" to the holy book is unthinkable to the vast majority of Muslims - "traditionally" there can be no such thing as too religiously driven, "too good a Muslim". They have been brought up within a society which impresses on them the importance of measuring up to the scrutiny of others, there is a constant presence of the need to prove that you are a "good" Muslim (i.e. that you overtly show it. At the behest of the schemers, the terrorists have extrapolated this pressure way past the accepted norm among the rest of their community.
Ayatollah Khomeini justified suicide tactics for use in the war with Iraq, something that previously was utter anathema within Islam, the schemers thought this was a great idea and have been using it ever since. I have spent years in Iran since Khomeini's time and it was quite clear that people there despise what he started with what they see as a perversion of the religion in sending thousands of boys to clear minefields by setting them off on foot.
Terrorism is a scourge but let's see it for what it is and not resort to Donaldian rhetoric or measures based on it.
Krom, there is no suggestion of throwing out the fundamental principles we are governed by, but desperate times call for desperate measures, and regardless of who objects, public safety must be paramount.
KARL, //Terrorism is a scourge but let's see it for what it is and not resort to Donaldian rhetoric or measures based on it.//
It is indeed a scourge, and you’re absolutely right to say ‘Let’s see it for what it is’. The problem is, most people don’t because it emanates from a mindset and from a philosophy that is completely alien to their own.
KARL, //Terrorism is a scourge but let's see it for what it is and not resort to Donaldian rhetoric or measures based on it.//
It is indeed a scourge, and you’re absolutely right to say ‘Let’s see it for what it is’. The problem is, most people don’t because it emanates from a mindset and from a philosophy that is completely alien to their own.
Here is a definition and an attempt at "understanding" what is going on in the minds of these people, where it is coming from, and an attempt at trying to find a way of eradicating it;
https:/
https:/
Most of the "solutions" being proposed here are already being used elsewhere and they have been used there for decades - in Saudi Arabia. The UK can simply copy and paste that "admirable" example, after all, there is plenty of close contact available through the military-industrial complex. Ironically, even Khomeini never went that far, Christian and other religions still have their adherents living in Iran, together with their places of worship. I and other foreigners have never been denied access to Iran (or Saudi Arabia for that matter) simply because we were not Muslims - is being a "better" islamophobe seriously being suggested as a UK preoccupation and national policy ?
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