He Da Man...or Is He !?

[The_Rim_Greaper]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/09/dominic-raab-appointed-new-brexit-secretary-in-uk-cabinet-reshuffle

so from bricks to Brexit...is he the man to get us our true and proper independence as voted for by 17 million people ?

[anneasquith]

He did ? Impressive ::-)

[naomi24]

Krom, //You [OG] seem to view any interaction between us and the EU at all as 'control'. If that's not extremist I don't know what is!//

Emotive language! Stop spinning. No one regards any interaction between us and the EU as ‘control’. Selective interaction is a long way from being blackmailed into agreements that we otherwise wouldn’t choose to enter into.

[Gromit]

// If we are still under control, whether we have the title 'member state' or not, we would still be in the EU. //

No we won’t.
Do you really believe that Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are in the EU? They are not, but they have made bilateral trade agreements with the EU because it is beneficial to their countries. Which is what we will do.

[Jackdaw33]

Although I consider myself au fait with the political scene I confess that I had to google this man's name.

[Kromovaracun]

Fine, I'll word it with less enthusiasm.

Asserting that our participation (by bespoke arrangement) in the customs union amounts to "control by Brussels" is an extreme statement. It's about as minimal as it realistically gets in terms of interaction with the EU aside from doing so on WTO terms.

[anneasquith]

As I did Jack .

[Gromit]

Yep, I had to look up Raab on wiki as I didn’t know of him.
He has held several good positions, but not really stood out. Now is his chance.

[naomi24]

Krom, The EU asserting that agreement cannot be reached unless we concede to their demands isn’t ‘bespoke arrangement’. It’s blackmail.

[Zacs-Master]

The final decision on a deal will be made by the EU member states, without our involvement. It's part of Article 50 and always has been.

[dave50]

We should just leave without any agreement, that is what we voted for, to leave the EU, simple as that. Then it's up to the EU to come to us and and offer some kind of agreement because they would eventually. We have been so frightened and spineless, its unbelievable.

[ichkeria]

All this nonsense reminds me so much of unionist politicians during the troubles in NI.
The slightest sign that the government was willing to concede the most minor nod in the way of be it power sharing or wherever and immediately there were accusations of ‘United Ireland by the back door’ etc etc. When we wake up will the madness be over??!!

[Old_Geezer]

Ive not studied other countries' arrangements with the EU but if they're dancing to the EU's tune they pretty much would be in it.

The whole point of Brexit was to escape control, make our own decisions. If that hasn't been achieved then it's simply not an exit. Agreements thst we are happy to make, after the above has been achieved, should not ensure we are still in except in name. Agreements should be beneficial to both sides with both feeling they control their own destiny, not jumping when the other side barks.

I feel most understand this. Perhaps a poll should be taken which indicates sympathy or not with leaving the EU and whether failing to regain sovereignty but having our name taken off the books counts as an exit ?

[Old_Geezer]

...that

[naomi24]

Ichkeria, //When we wake up will the madness be over??!!//

When the people who are ‘negotiating’ Brexit wake up we might be in with a chance.

[Old_Geezer]

I wasn't aware Article 50 said much about future trade agreements after we left. Not under it's jurisdiction by then surely ?

[Gromit]

OG,
A reminder of Article 50...

// A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3). It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

The member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it. //

[The_Rim_Greaper]

"after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. "

hahaha, just the title alone is risible...

[Old_Geezer]

The reference is about withdrawal not future trade. The EU is obliged to negotiate and conclude an agreement which they show no desire to do. They do have to take account of the framework for its future relationship but no guidence on what that EU obligation means. Obviously the leaving State doesn't have a say in what the EU tries to negotiate, but are on the other side of the table and from the article, need to be convinced to agree. So it's all obligations on the EU then, no final decision imposed unilaterally, and nothing about the trade talks that is presently bring considered. Looks a woolly document that doesn't support the idea that the EU dictates; although granted that's what they always try to do.

[sp1814]

All of this is like an extended episode of The Thick of It.