The Will Of The People ?

[Canary42]

I wonder how many of the democracy-loving Brextremists will review this with their usual blinkers well in place.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britons-want-another-eu-referendum-say-government-bungling-brexit-negotiations-131308791.html

[naomi24]

Jim, // I would have put it as "Britons are likely to want another referendum"//

Haha! I don't doubt you'd have done something like that.

[ToraToraTora]

ZM "I keep making the point about pretty substantial tariffs being immediately applied in the event of a no-deal exit but the leave voters seen to be ignoring it. " - why do you keep ignoring the obvious response? we'll do the same? capiesch?

[Zacs-Master]

Go on, indulge me, what's the 'obvious' answer?

[jim360]

Well yes, since it's the most accurate interpretation of the poll. Seemed reasonable to put it that way :P

[Jackdaw33]

The Will of the People, or Воля Народа, was a favourite expression of the Bolsheviks, by which they meant their will and stuff the people.

[Kromovaracun]

//why do you keep ignoring the obvious response? we'll do the same? capiesch? //

Forgive me 3T, it must be the heat. Why exactly should we take comfort from this plan?

[New Judge]

"Forgive me 3T, it must be the heat. Why exactly should we take comfort from this plan?"

Because we run an £80bn annual trade deficit with the EU. Whatever percentage is charged, we will receive more in tariffs than we pay. It's not really that difficult to grasp.

[Garaman]

Are we suggesting that should the EU make it harder for our exporters to sell goods in the EU, the solution is to make it more expensive for our importers to buy goods from the EU?

When you are banding about the tit for tat you ought to take into consideration the percentage of GDP.

[New Judge]

"Are we suggesting that should the EU make it harder for our exporters to sell goods in the EU, the solution is to make it more expensive for our importers to buy goods from the EU?"

Yes. The alternative is to say "OK. You charge 10% (or whatever) on our exports to you but we'll charge nothing on your exports to us." Yes, it is childish tit-for-tat. But that's what happens when you deal with an organisation for whom their "Project" trumps pragmatism. Hopefully common sense would soon break out but I wouldn't count on it.

The relative GDPs are irrelevant. We would make a profit from any such arrangement. Most of world trade is conducted under WTO rules. Yes, free trade is far and away the better option but the price for access to free trade with the EU (which is not actually free by any means) is too great.

[Garaman]

NJ, both the import tax and the export tax would affect business so one isn't a solution to the other, they both make things worse.

Of course GDP is relevant. If your plan is 'childish tit-for-tat' the only thing that matters is the relevance of the amount your are talking about, not the amount itself. It is the affect of that trade against your overall trading figure. I don't have the figures, but say the EU had five times our GDP, then a million pounds worth of trade lost to each of us would be five times more important to us.

[New Judge]

Yes it obviously makes things worse. The tariffs will ultimately be borne by the end users. Strangely under this scenario it is doubtful that any substantial amount of trade would be lost. Trade still has to be done with or without the interference of governments. All that would happen is that goods from the EU will be dearer for UK customers and vice versa for EU customers. The Market will soon decide whether customers are prepared to tolerate that or whether they would prefer their suppliers to source goods from outside the EU, where governments with a more enlightened approach may seek to forge trading agreements with the UK. Also, of course, as part of access to its "free" market, the EU already charges the UK £10bn.

These are not changes that will happen overnight and there will be short term disruption. But they must be done if the UK is to thrive because one thing is for sure - it will never do so whilst it is shackled to the moribund, protectionist and economically shrinking EU. But far more important than all of that put together is the need to urgently restore the country's independence and sovereignty before the EU descends into the utter chaos that seems inevitable if it continues as it is and drags the UK down onto the brown stuff with it.

[Garaman]

I am not suggesting for a moment that we won't make something work, NJ. I have every confidence in us. That doesn't mean though that we shouldn't discuss the practicalities here. I was hoping to do that without all the usual anti EU diatribe :)

[Jackdaw33]

//...is the need to urgently restore the country's independence and sovereignty before the EU descends into the utter chaos...\\.
The thing is, NJ, you're stating the bleeding obvious. You know that, I and a few others know that, but those with the blinkers on don't know that.

[Garaman]

Problem is, Jack, it isn't only the 'bleeding obvious' as you call it, but the only answer to any technical question.

[New Judge]

"That doesn't mean though that we shouldn't discuss the practicalities here."

I thought that's what we'd been doing.

"I was hoping to do that without all the usual anti EU diatribe :)"

I'm afraid it has to be accompanied as such. Whilst the practical problems are many and various they don't actually matter to many Brexiteers, including me. Whatever they are they must and will be overcome. There is far too much emphasis (and exaggeration) on the supposed economic perils that supposedly lay in store.

[hazydaisy]

Please define Brexetimist

[Mamyalynne]

Daisy

Until Canary tells you their definition...

//someone who is in favour of the UK leaving the EU and all associated organisations completely and immediately, regardless of the consequences//

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/brextremist

[naomi24]

^I wonder who came up with that word and that definition? As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as a Brextremist. Leavers voted 'Leave'.

[ToraToraTora]

ZM and co why do you think that only the EU can put tarrifs on imports? They slap our widgets, beemers and mercs get dearer, geddit? why is that so difficult to grasp? German business leaders have managed it. Even the Frau herself has finally woken up. The point is that we run a huge trade deficit, ie we are a customer. The business leaders on both sides of the Channel know that. It's only idiot politicians playing silly burgers.

[Garaman]

//ZM and co why do you think that only the EU can put tarrifs on imports? //

I doubt anyone thinks that, TTT, try reading again what has been written.