Brexit: Think Again

[bainbrig]

Michael Morpurgo argues it's time to think again over Brexit.

"It is surely time to accept that we have made a mistake", he writes, "that whichever way we voted, things are not turning out the way we expected".

"Or are we too proud?" he asks.

Listen, if you're not one of the shouty brigade, to Morpurgo's reasoned argument on BBC4's Point of View

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bclyj3

It's only ten minutes long, and will give you cause/pause for thought.

BillB

[ichkeria]

Never heard of Michael Morpurgo??
Oh well.
Not surprisingly I agree with him.
Merely listening is a tonic: I thought voices like that had died out...

[Canary42]

The Brexit campaign was illegal.

Hence the result was undemocratic.

Obviously Leavers won't like this (and I do have some sympathy with them), but the referendum should be rerun legally. Anything else endorses electoral cheating on a widespread scale.

[ToraToraTora]

canary: "The Brexit campaign was illegal. " - now you are getting desperate, PMSL, why do you so badly want to stay in the EUSSR? Not an MEP are you? Trying to save your gravy train?

[Togo]

If they force a re-run will Boris have £9million to spend on leave posters and mailshots like SCameron did? Or will he have to buy a new bus?

[Khandro]

bainbig //Because (as Morpurgo implies in his talk) joining together with other nations is a natural upward progression, away from tribalism, crass nationalism, towards a union of similarly-minded peoples to whom war is unthinkable. //

Is this your answer to my question, why would you want to join if you were outside of it now? Is that it then!!!? Just what is upwardly progressive about giving up your country's thousand years of sovereignty for which millions of people have fought and died to maintain. Surrendering the right to make and uphold your own laws, to decide who shall enter and live in your country. Emasculating your own parliament to a bunch of un-elected self-serving bureaucrats and pay 8 billion pounds per year of British taxpayers money for the privilege, and which European countries do you consider are thinking of going to war with one another?

[KARL]

NJ, I was told by someone who had to hand the statistics from a study that there was at the time more bureaucracy in the USA than in the USSR. I have worked for US companies and was appalled at how the only thing that seriously mattered was for each and everyone to have the paperwork carefully arranged to protect the ****, actual performance and attention to the job was definitely secondary. Americans usually doing things to excess, I would very much suspect that they still reign supreme when it comes to being bureaucracy champions. On the other hand, fighting/being light on bureaucracy and ending up woolly and lacking in clarity/transparency is no virtue. Incidentally, the UK is not particularly light on bureaucracy - there is a lot of duplication with different institutions/authorities acting independently and the result is in effect a lack of a co-ordinated system in running the country. That absence of a system is at the root of some of the complaints levelled in the UK against the EU (quite wrongly).

[ToraToraTora]

BA for Khandro at 13:57

[KARL]

Khandro, the UK seems to me the single European country most strongly wedded to military prowess, constantly celebrating anniversaries of battles and wars and labelling military employees as "heroes". I am not qualified to assert that he UK currently thinks of going to war in Europe but it is currently actively engaged in military conflict in.....how many different ones is it ? Meanwhile the UK is utterly defenceless against its worst enemy - itself.

[dannyk13]

Canary //The Brexit campaign was illegal//
And your proof of this is?

[Khandro]

bainbrig; Instead of listening to pedlars of fairy tales, listen to a real Mensch

[baza]

Some on here have inferred that I did not know what I was voting for when I put my X in the leave box, as I knew as much as the next person, so my opinion is as valid as some kiddie book writer. It is time for the for the remoaning class to shut up and leave the negotiations to those we hope know what they are doing, or they could just move to France or Germany.

[Togo]

// the UK seems to me the single European country most strongly wedded to military prowess, constantly celebrating anniversaries of battles and wars //

Perhaps we have more than most to celebrate. :)) Perhaps we will also be having ceremonies celebrating winning the Brexit battle in future. :)) :))

[Zacs-Master]

‘It is time for the for the remoaning class to shut up and leave the negotiations to those we hope know what they are doing’
That’ll be the Conservatives then. Headed by remainder, Theresa May.

[New Judge]

“NJ, I was told by someone who had to hand the statistics from a study that there was at the time more bureaucracy in the USA than in the USSR.”

You may well be right, Karl. Who knows? I’m not particularly fussed about the level of bureaucracy elsewhere as it scarcely effects me. Whatever the answer it’s a long way from this:

Together we can get rid of all the bureaucracy..."

[Zacs-Master]

And just how, on a day to day basis, does the EU bureaucracy blight your life, NJ?

[bainbrig]

I had the privilege to grow up with a lad who went on to become a barrister, a QC, and a Judge.

When I see the title 'judge' abused for the sake of some spurious one-up-manship on an internet forum, and read the totally injudicious ravings associated with it, I despair, and think often of my dead friend, the model of prudence, fairness, intelligence - qualities often sought in real judges, and rarely found in their internet counterfeits.

BB

[New Judge]

I (and many others) have done this before, Zacs (many times).

So let's leave it at this then: it's not what they do, it's the fact that they can do it that is the issue. That way we won't get bogged down with light-bulbs.

[New Judge]

What "injudicious ravings" have you seen from me then?

I suggest if you take umbrage at forum users' pen-names your're in for a lot of umbrage.

[dannyk13]

Bainbrig at14.39. Cant wait for NJ's reply to that unwarranted attack.

[ToraToraTora]

looks like TVI is off on one again.