Another One For T I G ?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47330079
"ashamed of the labour party" - enough said!

[ichkeria]

No real surprise : but he is a leave supporter I think and says he has no plans to join the others.
Just shows the depth of concern

[ToraToraTora]

"One of the main reasons I joined the Labour Party as a teenager here in Dudley more than 35 years ago was to fight racism and I could never have believed I would be leaving the Labour party because of racism too." - how can anyone support this shower of bigots?

[ichkeria]

Jeremy Corbyn is advised chiefly by Andrew Murray and Seumas Milne. Both of these individuals are apologists for Joseph Stalin and Murray in particular has even stood up for N Korea as a country oppressed by western sanctions.
I bet most people wouldn’t recognise either if they fell over them and yet these are the people effectively pulling the puppet strings. That they should even be in the Labour Party is a disgrace. That they have the position they do within it is a hundred times worse.

[Togo]

//A Labour spokesman expressed "regret" over Mr Austin's decision but called on him to face a by-election.
"He was elected as a Labour MP and so the democratic thing is to resign his seat and let the people of Dudley decide who should represent them," the spokesman added.//

Strange that. Don't recall the "spokesman" demanding by elections for the other defectors. Maybe this is a clue. Austin said......

//"I grew up listening to my dad, who was a refugee from the Holocaust, teaching me about the evils of hatred and prejudice."//

[jim360]

Maybe you weren't paying attention, Togo: John McDonnell definitely called for the "Gang of Seven" to resign and face by-elections, and Corbyn called for them to do so likewise in a video posted on Twitter.

[jim360]

In the same vein, Ian Austin specifically said he would *not* be joining the Independent Group -- so not quite sure where the title comes from.

[Togo]

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said that Labour would undertake a “mammoth listening exercise” to address the criticisms made by the defectors, but that the “only disagreement we have had within the party is around how we handle Brexit and I think we are bringing people together on that.”

Don't do the vacuous twit rounds, so am glad to miss the empty space being filled with garbage that appears to pass for gravity for some.

[Togo]

Having said that I am of the mind that every MP who has left their party after being elected under false pretences and all those who cannot fulfill their constituent's wishes because of "personal" feelings should face by elections.

[ichkeria]

Luciana Berger, who is actually Jewish, was one of the original seven also called on by Corbyn to resign.
So the manufactured point about Ian Austin is meaningless. They are all dissidents and they’ll all face a “people’s vote” in due course.

[Togo]

Another thing I would make clear. At least the Labour politicians have left for reasons that are entirely honourable and principled. Unlike the Conservative MPs who are manifestly unprincipled. I am surprised that the Labour MPs are willing to share the same space on the benches with them. The stench must be almost as bad as it was on the Labour benches. Got to agree with Victoria Baillon.

""Unlike the Labour defectors who spoke forcefully and sadly about the anti-Semitic Marxist cesspit that the Labour Party has become under the leadership of a back-bench agitator and his henchmen, these former Tories pronounced from on high in revanchist terms worthy of Guy Verhofstadt and Donald Tusk, condemning a so-called ‘Purple Momentum’ or ‘Bluekip’ which apparently has consumed their former party. This disparages those voters who believe in national sovereignty, the primacy of British law in our own country, the ability to trade with non-EU countries and the right to determine who comes and lives here, and is totally unconnected with the now discredited UKIP under its current leadership. Not satisfied with that, they, with the full co-operation of the BBC, continue to slander the ERG grouping in the Tory Party (referred to here on the Today programme as ‘entryists’ and helpfully in the same interview by Philip Hammond as ‘hard-core’) who simply want to deliver the manifesto commitments upon which they were elected. Unlike the ‘Three Amigos’ who, when it comes to democracy, dance to a very different tune when it suits them.
This trio have impoverished the political system under which they were elected and trashed the voters’ belief in democratic accountability. Their mendacity is unforgivable and will not be forgotten.""

[jim360]

It's generally held that MPs have three duties, and the duty to their party is third -- behind constituents and country.

[-Talbot-]

Does anyone know any staunch Labour members? (the ones who talk politics all the time and go to meetings)


I know many and their views are getting more and more extreme.
Revolution brothers, revolution.

[ichkeria]

Indeed.
I watched Question Time briefly last night before turning off in despair. I wondered after that if maybe these days people actually no longer want the reasonable and principled politics of the centre. That blogger woman in particular was atrocious: everything she uttered was a trite soundbite. Though Chris Leslie seemed to have more support than was at some times apparent: maybe people were just scared to put their hands up to speak and were content to applaud.

[ichkeria]

That was to Jim

[ichkeria]

I know quite a few Labour Party members most of whom “support” Corbyn with very much a small s. They are all very clever, nice people and when you question them on it they tend to agree that Corbyns really not that great. But so much of politics is tribal: they think he’s a lot better than the other lot

[vetuste_ennemi]

//It's generally held that MPs have three duties, and the duty to their party is third -- behind constituents and country//

Agree with that, Jim. Except in the special case of a referendum (with which VE doesn't agree by the way).

"Sovereign" parliament has delegated a decision to the populace. And sovereign parliament should not hinder, far less contradict that decision.

What bit of that don't you get or disagree with, Jim?

[jim360]

The electorate was asked whether it wanted to leave the EU or not. It wasn't asked about *how*. As far as I can tell, we have at the moment only two options, one of which ruins our sovereignty and the other of which ruins our economy. I don't see that Parliament should be obliged to choose one of these options and only one of them. At the moment, at least, that's where the current debate lies.

[Togo]

// one of which ruins our sovereignty and the other of which ruins our economy.//

One of those "options" is undoubtedly true whereas the other has no scientific or common sense based argument to support it. In fact the opposite is, according to all but the most entrenched euromaniac, likely to be the true outcome. The Remainiac, slavish, sycophants who are in thrall to the EUSSR have blown a dog whistle so loudly promulgating a false argument that they are determined to believe their own lies at our expense.

[jim360]

That's completely misleading and you know it. The overwhelming amount of opinion and research supports the idea that a No Deal Brexit, particularly one that is "sprung" on the UK with no meaningful chance to prepare for it, will be at best damaging and at worst disastrous over the next few years -- and for all parties.

[jim360]

As for common sense arguments... common sense should tell everyone that if thousands of rules affecting every sector of the British economy cease to apply, with nothing decided on what will replace them, then it won't be exactly pretty.