Jo Brand - Comedy Or Incitement?

[agchristie]

When is comedy not comedy?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7133231/Jo-Brand-jokes-throwing-battery-acid-unpleasant-politicians.html

[Zacs-Master]

Stupid as the comment was, I don't think she said anything about 'faces' N.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // //society has moved on, and their [Davidson and Manning] brand of humour is largely seen as unacceptable to today's values in society.//

Joking about throwing acid in people’s faces is the new acceptable value? There’s progress for you! //

I have not stated or inferred such a view - if you wish to forward that as an observation linked to something I said, please make it clear that the rhetorical question and opinion following it are yours only, and in no way connected to my views, which I will express for myself.

[naomi24]

Ok, throwing acid at people.

[spathiphyllum]

As an advocate for the freedom of speech and expression, AOG (especially when referring to your religious and political beliefs) I'm surprised you're taking such objection to the joke Jo made.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Ok, throwing acid at people. //

There you go - don't let adding your own slant onto what Ms Brand actually said get in the way of embroidering her perceived offence, in order to defend your position.

[naomi24]

AH, I quoted you. Your name wasn't mentioned.

[spathiphyllum]

Naomi look at some comedy from 40 years ago. Violence, and shock horror has always been a key element to comedy. Listening to someone say things that others wouldn't.

[naomi24]

AH at 11:49, what on earth are you talking about? No, don't tell me. We'll only end up going around the houses again.

[andy-hughes]

spath - // As an advocate for the freedom of speech and expression, AOG (especially when referring to your religious and political beliefs) I'm surprised you're taking such objection to the joke Jo made. //

To be fair, your point does speak to the age-old and oft quoted observation - "Free speech does not allow one falsely to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre.

Free speech is enshrined in our freedoms, but it does carry responsibilities.

[spathiphyllum]

Naomi maybe watch home alone, a classic Christmas comedy, filled with slapstick violence.

There is an entire category of comedy dedicated to laughing at people who have hurt themselves.

[spathiphyllum]

Andy, there is no such thing as "freedom of speech" in the UK. As far as i am aware, freedom of expression does hold gravity, though.

However, AOG has on more than one occasion been an advocate on AB for freedom of speech.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // AH, I quoted you. Your name wasn't mentioned. //

Are you suggesting that by quoting something I said a few minutes ago, but omitting my name, divorces me from your observation?

I think it does not, and you know it does not.

I expect your response to be the usual, when you have lost a point of argument, you usually write "Oh dear …" - so feel free.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// Clearly that is not true - you advocate Ms Brand being censored on the basis that she is, as you perceive her, a 'public figure' and therefore is denied the freedom to speak as she wishes, which the rest of us enjoy. ///

/// You can't have it both ways. ///

Neither can you have it only one way, if you agree there should not be any censorship and the freedom to speak as one wishes, then I agree with you.

But I suspect that is not you agree with, so to me that is double standards, something that I do not agree with.

Bring back 'Chalky White' I say, and I don't mean the old boxer.

[spathiphyllum]

There is clear laws on hate crime. Jo brand has not broken these laws.

Freedom of expression is available under certain conditions, not promoting hate speech is one of them.

How Jo Brand "expressed" herself, was entirely lawful.

All i can say really is.. Get over it?

[naomi24]

AH, if I wanted to write ‘oh dear’ I would.

No, quoting you doesn’t divorce you from my observation. I find it very difficult to reconcile your inference that whilst the jokes of yesteryear are now socially unacceptable, a joke about throwing acid at people isn't. If that's the case, then it’s a sad indictment upon society.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - // andy-hughes

/// Clearly that is not true - you advocate Ms Brand being censored on the basis that she is, as you perceive her, a 'public figure' and therefore is denied the freedom to speak as she wishes, which the rest of us enjoy. ///

/// You can't have it both ways. ///

Neither can you have it only one way, if you agree there should not be any censorship and the freedom to speak as one wishes, then I agree with you.

But I suspect that is not you agree with, so to me that is double standards, something that I do not agree with. //

My post was addressed to Naomi, but of course I am happy to discuss it with you.

I don't believe that the issue of free speech is a matter of anyone saying anything anywhere at any time.

As I have said before, I believe that free speech comes with responsibilities, and on this occasion, as I posted, I do not believe that Ms Brand has abdicated that responsibility in what she said.

// Bring back 'Chalky White' I say, and I don't mean the old boxer. //

I think you will find yourself in a minority in that wish.

[spathiphyllum]

Jokes of yesteryear were racist and offensive to the general population.

What Jo Brand said, certainly was not.

Why are people comparing what Jo said to racism??

Racism offends the entire audience or at least a mahoosive %.. What Jo said certainly does not.

[spathiphyllum]

"Under Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998, “everyone has the right to freedom of expression” in the UK. But the law states that this freedom “may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society”"

Freedom of speech does not exist.

[spathiphyllum]

Do people understand how stomping out racism is necessary in a democratic society?

If so stop comparing this situation to one of a racial aggravated one. It's moot. Heavily moot.

[andy-hughes]

Naomi - // AH, if I wanted to write ‘oh dear’ I would.

No, quoting you doesn’t divorce you from my observation. I find it very difficult to reconcile your inference that whilst the jokes of yesteryear are now socially unacceptable, a joke about throwing acid at people isn't. If that's the case, then it’s a sad indictment upon society. //

If you read back through my posts, I think you will find that I have not offered a view either for or against the acceptability of Ms. Brand's comment - so I cannot be accused, as you appear to be doing - of double standards in rejecting the humour of a bygone era, while embracing the humour of modern comedy.

I have done one, but not the other, so I can say with confidence that I am not a 'sad indictment on society' - not today anyway!