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Sir Humphrey Says We Are Ok For No Deal......so Lets Get On With It.
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Instead of hand wringing and allowing the EUSSR to shaft us, should we just accept no deal and prepare for it as best we can in the remaining time?
Instead of hand wringing and allowing the EUSSR to shaft us, should we just accept no deal and prepare for it as best we can in the remaining time?
Answers
You don't need to be a politician, just have a grasp of common sense, to know that the EU were always going to play hard ball from Day One of the negotiators, how could they do any other? To roll over and accept Britain's exit is to start a domino effect which would see the EU collapsing within five years, they were always going to make it as hard as they could to set an...
12:36 Sun 16th Jun 2019
andy-hughes - // I think it's naïve in the extreme to imagine that the government - and the EU - did not start considering each and every scenario from the day the referendum was announced.//
You think that the government and the EU considered 'each and every scenario'. Apart from a proposed twenty mile or so lorry park on the M20; stock piling medicines, food and other essentials, I have heard of no plans Are you suggesting that they are being kept secret?
You think that the government and the EU considered 'each and every scenario'. Apart from a proposed twenty mile or so lorry park on the M20; stock piling medicines, food and other essentials, I have heard of no plans Are you suggesting that they are being kept secret?
Playbill - // andy-hughes - // I think it's naïve in the extreme to imagine that the government - and the EU - did not start considering each and every scenario from the day the referendum was announced.//
You think that the government and the EU considered 'each and every scenario'. Apart from a proposed twenty mile or so lorry park on the M20; stock piling medicines, food and other essentials, I have heard of no plans Are you suggesting that they are being kept secret? //
I see you are steering clear of my observation that your previous arguments are deeply flawed, with evidence including your own posts to back up my position - so be it.
// Are you suggesting that they are being kept secret? //
I don't do 'suggesting' - what I am sure of is that government negotiations about anything and anything are icebergs - ninety per cent is under the water and unseen, which does not mean that they do not exist.
The media flags up hypotheticals which its readers can understand,. and prophesises doom and gloom based on guesswork and imagination - they are not privy to the actual negotiations any more than we are - it's not how governments operate.
You think that the government and the EU considered 'each and every scenario'. Apart from a proposed twenty mile or so lorry park on the M20; stock piling medicines, food and other essentials, I have heard of no plans Are you suggesting that they are being kept secret? //
I see you are steering clear of my observation that your previous arguments are deeply flawed, with evidence including your own posts to back up my position - so be it.
// Are you suggesting that they are being kept secret? //
I don't do 'suggesting' - what I am sure of is that government negotiations about anything and anything are icebergs - ninety per cent is under the water and unseen, which does not mean that they do not exist.
The media flags up hypotheticals which its readers can understand,. and prophesises doom and gloom based on guesswork and imagination - they are not privy to the actual negotiations any more than we are - it's not how governments operate.
Playbill - // We could go on batting this backwards and forwards ad infinitum. You think my suppositions are wrong, and I do not agree with yours. Seems very similar to what happened in parliament. Let's just wait and see how it all turns out. //
It's not your 'suppositions' I think are wrong - it's your notion that we should have negotiated a deal to leave the EU before a ballot was held to see if we were going to leave or not - that's the only main issue I have with what you have said so far.
It's not your 'suppositions' I think are wrong - it's your notion that we should have negotiated a deal to leave the EU before a ballot was held to see if we were going to leave or not - that's the only main issue I have with what you have said so far.
Playbill - // I never mentioned ANYTHING about negotiating a deal. That was someone else on here. My argument with you was your suggestion that all possible scenarios for the outcome of leaving had been considered. //
It appears that you did actually -
// Yes danny, there were two choices. By remaining, at least we knew what we were dealing with and had a say in that (despite of all the 'unelected bureaucrats making our laws', etc). Yet now we still have no idea HOW we will be leaving - deal or no deal; Irish backstop; trade deals, etc, etc..
15:09 Fri 14th Jun 2019 //
You cannot know that the government did not consider every outcome, I cannot know that they did - but given that this is the government, analysing decisions that are going to affect the country for decades, I think common sense leans more towards my viewpoint than yours.
It appears that you did actually -
// Yes danny, there were two choices. By remaining, at least we knew what we were dealing with and had a say in that (despite of all the 'unelected bureaucrats making our laws', etc). Yet now we still have no idea HOW we will be leaving - deal or no deal; Irish backstop; trade deals, etc, etc..
15:09 Fri 14th Jun 2019 //
You cannot know that the government did not consider every outcome, I cannot know that they did - but given that this is the government, analysing decisions that are going to affect the country for decades, I think common sense leans more towards my viewpoint than yours.
This thread has descended into farce.
It is obvious that a leaving deal could not have been negotiated before the decision to leave had been taken. The deal on offer having decided to leave is appalling. Just imagine how dire it would be if it was made before the vote (bearing in mind the last thing the EU wants is to lose our £10bn pa).
Anyway the "deal" is not worthy of the name as it is nothing of the sort. It is simply a set of conditions laid down by the EU which they insist on in exchange for not causing us too much trouble. You can imagine how much more onerous it would be had it been negotiated prior to the vote.
It is obvious that a leaving deal could not have been negotiated before the decision to leave had been taken. The deal on offer having decided to leave is appalling. Just imagine how dire it would be if it was made before the vote (bearing in mind the last thing the EU wants is to lose our £10bn pa).
Anyway the "deal" is not worthy of the name as it is nothing of the sort. It is simply a set of conditions laid down by the EU which they insist on in exchange for not causing us too much trouble. You can imagine how much more onerous it would be had it been negotiated prior to the vote.
Officially being involved in the decision process isn't that relevant if one can choose to accept or reject the outcome. Anyone officially involved in decision process that didn't take into account our views were clearly uninterested in making genuine progress and more interested in amusing themselves making unreasonable demands and causing issues.
I don't see how no deal makes any difference to the likleyhood of a GE. There is no chance of a GE, the Tories may be split but they and the DUP will come together to stop one. Cob cannot force one. Any chance of a GE will need some Tories to vote for xmas. Explain how you think a GE is likely and how it can occur.
You don't need to be a politician, just have a grasp of common sense, to know that the EU were always going to play hard ball from Day One of the negotiators, how could they do any other?
To roll over and accept Britain's exit is to start a domino effect which would see the EU collapsing within five years, they were always going to make it as hard as they could to set an example to any other countries thinking of doing the same.
Where Britain appears to have fallen down, is not to understand that basic fact, and play harder ball as well. It transpires that the EU expected us to be really tough, and were surprised and amused at the way we rolled over - to our cost.
We should have threatened to walk away from Day One, and meant it, and no be ready to carry out or threat.
We still won't and they know it, to our cost.
To roll over and accept Britain's exit is to start a domino effect which would see the EU collapsing within five years, they were always going to make it as hard as they could to set an example to any other countries thinking of doing the same.
Where Britain appears to have fallen down, is not to understand that basic fact, and play harder ball as well. It transpires that the EU expected us to be really tough, and were surprised and amused at the way we rolled over - to our cost.
We should have threatened to walk away from Day One, and meant it, and no be ready to carry out or threat.
We still won't and they know it, to our cost.
Tora, this is interesting:
https:/
https:/
There's one question in all of this that really should be to the fore.
Why has there not been a public approach to the experts at Answerbank for the definitive solution to this knotty problem?
Are both sides THAT scared of being shown how a modicum of tolerance and common sense could have this sorted out over a weekend?
Why has there not been a public approach to the experts at Answerbank for the definitive solution to this knotty problem?
Are both sides THAT scared of being shown how a modicum of tolerance and common sense could have this sorted out over a weekend?
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